9/11 today and yesterday

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9/11 today and yesterday

Post  MichaelaSJ on Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:17 am

They say 'a picture is worth a thousand words', but this cartoonist from the New Zealand Herald (Rod Emmerson) has captured the recent 17 years of history from 9/11 to today juxtaposed with the alt-right with a succinctness not requiring words.

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If you don't want a man unhappy politically, don't give him two sides to a question to worry him; give him one. Better yet, give him none. Let him forget there is such a thing as war. If the Government is inefficient, top-heavy, and tax-mad, better it is all those than that people worry over it. Peace, Montag.
Fahrenheit 451

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Re: 9/11 today and yesterday

Post  Celia Eriksson on Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:11 pm

Yes Miki, that is something easily poignant almost worldwide, referring of course to the right wing boys carrying garden torches at Berkeley, again famous, as a place of learning worldwide. Sad analogy of time, but not far from the truth....

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Re: 9/11 today and yesterday

Post  mariehart1 on Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:52 pm

I was on nights that day. Lived with my Mother. I woke up early afternoon and turned on the TV in my room. As I did often to wake myself up. There was a stupid end of the world terrorist attack movie on TV. So I changed channels. The same movie was on the other channel and the other channel. The penny dropped and I looked on in horror.

My Mother utterly missed the drama. So when I went downstairs it was a surprise to her as she wasn't much for watching the news.

I went to work that evening, it was IBM so there was a certain tension, security was upped as after all the stars and stripes flew over the campus.

I was responsible for a number of staff. My supervisor, betraying the kind of upper stiff that the British are famous for advised me to not to allow my people to spent too much time in the cafeteria watching events in the US. But we're not British and frankly we spent most of the night in the canteen viewing events.

I have to say I felt sick for a long time afterwards.

Worse the previous year, I passed through Boston airport when I was sent to the US by IBM. I had commented at the time how loose security was compared to Europe. But we had experienced terrorism more than America.

My impression was that security at US airports was sloppy. Apparently I was right. The nice America died that day.

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Re: 9/11 today and yesterday

Post  Celia Eriksson on Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:39 pm

Hi Marie,

Who does not know where they were at that time. I was just taking a break in a rest room. I had my coffee and sat down watching the news, a plane had hit the first tower. It was but a minute later that I saw live the second one hit. I cried. Our little restroom, having a tv, filled up with porters and auxiliaries and others that have no real timetable, and soon lots of us were very shocked. I had to go back, but later that shift, even watching George W be told about it whilst at a nursery school made me cry.

The USA under attack! It was terrible.

It is not funny, but an order went round, NOT to mention it to anyone. The gabbiest member of staff, apparently, within minutes, relayed the news to an American family that had brought their son with a suspected broken wrist... it didn't seem to matter soon after, coz that's life and hey.... it happened, what ya gonna do UK?...…. though I can't remember the girl's name she made sure she told her HN that the family were not New Yorkers.

I don't know why but I have had the greatest respect for George W Bush, ever since that day and disliked those that slated him after that event. He kept his word and went after the evil people that did the dastardly deed. And going on from GW, I was very pleased too, when dear Barak Obama finished the job, I'm not a retribution type gal, but seeing that vile Saudi Arabian man, who's name does not deserve mention, being shot made me feel disclosure for my American cousins, and I truly, truly, truly, hate the idea of violence!!!! God Bless America and God Save The Queen Elizabeth of England and King Harald of Norway and most of all long live democracy! Celia xx

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Re: 9/11 today and yesterday

Post  MichaelaSJ on Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:18 am

I was asleep when the first plane hit the north tower and my daughter woke me just after the second plane hit the south tower.

The TV was on in the bedroom and I groggily awoke to watch the two towers ablaze. My Wife and daughter were both in my bedroom and I turned to both of them saying there will be 20,000 killed today. It is somewhat of a consolation that less than 3,000 were killed.

There are many sights from that day that are forever burned into our collective consciousnesses, but the one I will forever live with was the second plane hitting the south tower and for a brief moment, a very brief moment simply disappearing into the building before fire, debris and lives - too many lives - being shoved out the opposite side of the building. That brief view defines surrealism - but it was all too real, nevertheless.

For those of us who live in Europe, Africa and Asia you were not spared the sight of hundreds of mortals jumping from the towers so as to not be consumed by the flames. I do not, cannot understand why we, in the United States were sheltered from that horror.

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If you don't want a man unhappy politically, don't give him two sides to a question to worry him; give him one. Better yet, give him none. Let him forget there is such a thing as war. If the Government is inefficient, top-heavy, and tax-mad, better it is all those than that people worry over it. Peace, Montag.
Fahrenheit 451

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Re: 9/11 today and yesterday

Post  Celia Eriksson on Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:22 pm

Gosh, I never knew that they did not show you that Miki. For it was scenes like that that horrified me terribly. I was quite shocked for days. I don't really hate anyone, I never have been able to. Oh, I have spats and little bitches at people, it's a part of life, but I am a very forgiving person. Shamefully though, I do recall having pangs of hatred towards elements of a faith as I watched that television that afternoon and I had to quickly remind myself that the vast majority of people of that faith were as shocked and saddened as I was and it most certainly was not their fault. But as for those that perpetrated, planned and supported this dastardly deed, I find it very hard to forgive them Miki. TBH I don't know that I can forgive anyone that kills others, without defending democracy.

Celia xx


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Re: 9/11 today and yesterday

Post  Lesley Niyori on Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:42 pm

The saddest most horrible truth, is it either happened as most believe, or it happened as some suspect, but, in the end, the US is a worse place today, regardless.

The TSA are staffed by callous ogres with no skill. ICE might as well be Gestapo.

For about a year the USA had finally shed its post-Vietnam stain on its military. That benefit was squandered long before this century was opened. Iraq actually succeeded in being eventually worse than Vietnam. And Afghanistan, well, the Russians learned their lesson slowly, and it looks like the lesson wasn't learned by anyone.

Here we are today, several years after a very horrible day. And it is actually, fairly easy, to actually believe (I don't have an opinion either way), that 9/11 could have been a 'fake' attack.

Living in a world where Trump actually won the white house, and to be honest, NOTHING seems impossible any more.
The world is so obviously politics run by malicious self-interested politicians and people with sums of money Joe Nobody can't even relate to.
And I am not encouraged to be living in Canada when even we have Doug Ford (I don't expect you to know him, but, it's plain he's a Trump wannabe).

I dream of a day when all ALL of the world's losers (the people who vote thinking they are actually controlling/influencing anything at all) finally get it, there is no political parties actually genuinely representing them. I like Justin, but, in truth, I didn't vote Liberal, I wasn't part of why he was elected. I didn't vote Doug in, but, in truth, I didn't vote willingly for who I picked.
The Dems are as much of the people and for the people as are the Reps. None. The Liberals in Canada, are as much my friend as are the PCs. None. I see my dad posting material about the politicians in England. No shortage of swine there it seems.

I sometimes wonder, could 9/11 happen anywhere else? Probably not. What would a sequel need to look like in England? Does Canada have enough importance to the world to be able to manifest a similar day?

I have zero desire to live in the US. I'd rather not visit it. I'm reluctant to just pass over it.

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Re: 9/11 today and yesterday

Post  MichaelaSJ on Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:24 pm

Lesley Niyori wrote:I have zero desire to live in the US. I'd rather not visit it. I'm reluctant to just pass over it.
Good, we don't need anyone else with a simple mind living in a simple town unwilling to confront complexity.

Generalities are mostly wrong, but the few Canadians I have met show a certain smugness in being Canadian and not their southern brethren. Keep your smugness Lesley, I am sure it will serve you well as you manage to live your simple life in a simple place. How boring can that possibly be?

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If you don't want a man unhappy politically, don't give him two sides to a question to worry him; give him one. Better yet, give him none. Let him forget there is such a thing as war. If the Government is inefficient, top-heavy, and tax-mad, better it is all those than that people worry over it. Peace, Montag.
Fahrenheit 451

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Re: 9/11 today and yesterday

Post  Lesley Niyori on Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:26 pm

MichaelaSJ wrote:
Lesley Niyori wrote:I have zero desire to live in the US. I'd rather not visit it. I'm reluctant to just pass over it.
Good, we don't need anyone else with a simple mind living in a simple town unwilling to confront complexity.

Generalities are mostly wrong, but the few Canadians I have met show a certain smugness in being Canadian and not their southern brethren. Keep your smugness Lesley, I am sure it will serve you well as you manage to live your simple life in a simple place. How boring can that possibly be?

I could be annoyed, but, I'm Canadian Smile

I didn't pay for my GRS, my fiance won't be paying for her's either. My name change was simple, hers will be too.

I don't need to care much about getting married inasmuch as the government is concerned.
And bathrooms ain't really an issue for me. I took my girlfriend into the ladies room not long ago as she's a girl, so it's where she belongs.

That's just transgender stuff though.

America has oodles of beautiful places to want to see. Canada is the second largest country on the planet though, and we have a LOT of beautiful places. I'm pondering asking dad if we can honeymoon in England, but really, I'd also love to honeymoon in Ottawa and Quebec City just as much.

And while we ain't exactly unscathed when it comes to mother nature lately, it's going to be a lot worse in the US in coming years.

I might be of a young mind, and I might not care for a complicated life, but simple minded? Nope, my smugness isn't so much because of what I have, it's more about what I don't have.

I don't have the gun crime levels, and I don't have to worry about hate crimes (because they're illegal in Canada), and I don't have nice white Christian assholes trying to use a stupid fucking book to outlaw my existence. My nation values it's underprivileged citizens. It's too bad the US is more concerned about what everyone is doing in every other nation than it's own. It's too bad the average US citizen means so little to the US government.

Yes. I like being Canadian. Sorry eh Smile

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Re: 9/11 today and yesterday

Post  MichaelaSJ on Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:32 pm

...and still the smugness of being a Canadian simply drips off the page.

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If you don't want a man unhappy politically, don't give him two sides to a question to worry him; give him one. Better yet, give him none. Let him forget there is such a thing as war. If the Government is inefficient, top-heavy, and tax-mad, better it is all those than that people worry over it. Peace, Montag.
Fahrenheit 451

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Re: 9/11 today and yesterday

Post  jentay1367 on Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:04 am

Lesley, you might take under consideration that many here are Americans. You may also want to consider that your self righteous indignation regarding us may not sit well with those of us that are American. Though some or part of what you say may be true, I personally would like to say that I don't need you walking into my home and pointing out my inequities. There may be dirty socks on the floor, but it's not yours to point out. Assholes may encompass the white Christians you've mentioned, but assholes aree most obviously everywhere. Even in the backwaters of Canada, it would appear. To what end might you think your little diatribes are going to garner you any favors? You are passively aggressively always on the hunt for someone seeking a new opportunity to shit on someone, anyone it would seem at times. Droll indignity can only carry you so far and then only with a very few. You may want to reconsider your tact. Because in the end, alienation is a poor way to bring attention to yourself and certainly no way to garner companionship. Rolling Eyes

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Re: 9/11 today and yesterday

Post  Lesley Niyori on Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:06 pm

jentay1367 wrote:Lesley, you might take under consideration that many here are Americans. You may also want to consider that your self righteous indignation regarding us may not sit well with those of us that are American. Though some or part of what you say may be true, I personally would like to say that I don't need you walking into my home and pointing out my inequities. There may be dirty socks on the floor, but it's not yours to point out.  Assholes may encompass the white Christians you've mentioned, but assholes aree most obviously everywhere. Even in the backwaters of Canada, it would appear. To what end might you think your little diatribes are going to garner you any favors? You are passively aggressively always on the hunt for someone seeking a new opportunity to shit on someone, anyone it would seem at times. Droll indignity can only carry you so far and then only with a very few. You may want to reconsider your tact. Because in the end, alienation is a poor way to bring attention to yourself and certainly no way to garner companionship. Rolling Eyes

You may want to consider, that everything I said was true, and that I'm not even remotely alone in these sentiments dear.

Chile recently passed legislation to eliminate discrimination of me. Chile, a nation not normally known as a forefront of democracy. The US is being outdone by countries like Chile.
What you call 'self-righteous indignation, is really a manifestation of the truth.
You call me an 'asshole', but most of the planet actually thinks much worse of most of the US.
I've never actually met an American I specifically hated. I have many I call friend.
But the US elected fair and square Trump. That equals MILLIONS of Americans the rest of the world considers much worse than 'assholes'. Your country has more Trump supporters, and there are Canadians. Think about that for a moment.

I'm not saying what I say to make enemies.
But consider this, I already have millions of enemies who would prefer you and I were dead.
DEAD!

And you want me to play NICE?

I'm not picking on YOU, I'm picking on THEM.

If you read my other posts, you KNOW I'm not soft on ANYONE anywhere. My province recently elected Doug Ford, a man I consider as bad as Trump. I'm not limited to just attacking bad elements in US society.

These people HAVE alienated your entire nation as a whole. I am not the person you need to direct your indignation towards.

These ARE your problems dear. I can't make them go away, YOU CAN though.

I'm not 'passively' aggressive, I'm in your face actively aggressive.

Your own language in your post is hardly innocent dear. "Backwaters" you say? Maybe my people are a bit sparse in some regions. I did mention Canada is the second largest country in the world. And our population is under 40 million. That means you have 200 million more taxpayers to work with than me and Canada. And yet, it's not enough to provide decent health care?

If you don't like me pointing out the flaws, FIX THEM!

"Little diatribes" that's precisely the attitude that makes people love the US so much.
My little diatribes are not that little, nor are they that isolated. You won't need to look too far to find more people that think equally about the US in general. We are all somewhat shocked by what's going on in the US. Most of us don't like it. And collectively, there's more of us, than there is Americans.

Yes, there ARE assholes everywhere.
How many of them are raving lunatics with nukes aimed at MY planet. It's my planet too eh.

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Re: 9/11 today and yesterday

Post  MichaelaSJ on Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:01 pm

Lesley Niyori wrote:And you want me to play NICE?
Yes, and especially when I make a post about one of the most horrific acts ever committed against a civilized people.

If you want to make a post denigrating a nation still suffering with many open wounds, start your own thread.
Lesley Niyori wrote:I'm not 'passively' aggressive, I'm in your face actively aggressive.
...and because of this, I will delete any further posts from you in my thread.

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If you don't want a man unhappy politically, don't give him two sides to a question to worry him; give him one. Better yet, give him none. Let him forget there is such a thing as war. If the Government is inefficient, top-heavy, and tax-mad, better it is all those than that people worry over it. Peace, Montag.
Fahrenheit 451

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Re: 9/11 today and yesterday

Post  Lesley Niyori on Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:49 pm

Deleted

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Re: 9/11 today and yesterday

Post  Angelic on Sun Sep 16, 2018 2:24 pm

9/11 has nothing to do with Nazis, whatsoever.

The sad fact of the matter is, 9/11 was an inside job. And that kind of thing can divide a nation, real American's patriotic Americans, who love the idea of America but hate the corrupt politicians bringing down the only nation in the world that stood for true freedom.
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Re: 9/11 today and yesterday

Post  Celia Eriksson on Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:53 pm

Sorry Angel, I don't buy that. There are intelligence leads not involving US agencies that nail the entire affair upon Al Qaeeda, Indian and British in particular. There is not a shred of evidence supporting White House or Penatagon involvement and what has been written by conspiracy theorists is baloney.

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Re: 9/11 today and yesterday

Post  MichaelaSJ on Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:46 pm

Angelic wrote:9/11 has nothing to do with Nazis, whatsoever.
You are correct.
Angelic wrote:9/11 was an inside job.
You are wrong, sadly so wrong.

The Jews did not boycott the WTC on 9/11
The Holocaust did happen
The CIA did not create the AIDS virus
There was not another shooter on the grassy knoll
We actually did land men on the moon (several times actually)

Stand up, reach as high and tall as you can and grab as much reality as possible. You will be amazed at how much more interesting reality is than speculation and conspiracy.

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If you don't want a man unhappy politically, don't give him two sides to a question to worry him; give him one. Better yet, give him none. Let him forget there is such a thing as war. If the Government is inefficient, top-heavy, and tax-mad, better it is all those than that people worry over it. Peace, Montag.
Fahrenheit 451

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Re: 9/11 today and yesterday

Post  Celia Eriksson on Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:17 pm

MichaelaSJ wrote:
Angelic wrote:9/11 has nothing to do with Nazis, whatsoever.
You are correct.
Angelic wrote:9/11 was an inside job.
You are wrong, sadly so wrong.

The Jews did not boycott the WTC on 9/11
The Holocaust did happen
The CIA did not create the AIDS virus
There was not another shooter on the grassy knoll
We actually did land men on the moon (several times actually)

Stand up, reach as high and tall as you can and grab as much reality as possible. You will be amazed at how much more interesting reality is than speculation and conspiracy.


Spot on Miki! There is just one thing I have often been spooked by upon the grassy knoll and that is the woman in the headscarf.

I forget what they call her, but she was never found, whoo-oooo-oooo. Well, she may have died by natural causes or something, but they say her photos would have been invaluable, but they never found her.

I hate conspiracy theory, it clouds logical judgement upon issues and is never helpful.

PS. I think shorter breaks in script like you do make things easier to read, I shall try to do that more. Celia xx

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Re: 9/11 today and yesterday

Post  Angelic on Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:40 pm

Celia Eriksson wrote:Sorry Angel, I don't buy that. There are intelligence leads not involving US agencies that nail the entire affair upon Al Qaeeda, Indian and British in particular. There is not a shred of evidence supporting White House or Penatagon involvement and what has been written by conspiracy theorists is baloney.

What is baloney, is how you or one of the mods just deleted my posts about conspiracy. 

So, you want me to believe that you are actually in on the conspiracy?
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Re: 9/11 today and yesterday

Post  Lesley Niyori on Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:17 pm

I don't always agree with the mods, I don't always like the mods. But, I'd rather not be a mod.

I've been a mod for a large commercial forum community. I didn't enjoy it.

It's a crappy job. Usually unpaid. Usually unappreciated.

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Re: 9/11 today and yesterday

Post  Celia Eriksson on Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:12 pm

Well, the only post I saw of yours is still there Angel, so I can categorically promise you that I have not done anything. Celia xx

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Re: 9/11 today and yesterday

Post  Lucy Catherine Schoon on Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:59 pm

Why are conspiracy theories more convoluted then what is reported to actually of happened.

Personally I think the term "conspiracy theory" has been corrupted to mean " crazy theory".

But a conspiracy, is mearly the act of conspiring against another party. And that happens every day. When your partner cheats on you, it a conspiracy. What tobacco companies did when they covered up the link between smoking and cancer for decades, that's a conspiracy. They way the Catholic church covered up child abuse in its ranks, that's a conspiracy.

Conspiracies happen every day, many are relatively small... Some are massive.

But the conspiracy has to make more sense then the lie. In cannot be "crazy".....

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Re: 9/11 today and yesterday

Post  MichaelaSJ on Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:57 am

I deleted Angel's post as it was heading off towards a reality that only exists in well - fantasy. It was incoherent and served no particular need except to further Angel fantastical assumptions of right and wrong.

If any of the forum members disagree with my reasoning, then I apologize to the one(s) who disagree. I appreciate that you may have wanted to engage in what I, in my sole authority as moderator, deemed to be foolishness and subsequently deleted the post.
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To quote someone with more compassion and patience than I:
Lucy Catherine Schoon wrote:But the conspiracy has to make more sense then the lie. In cannot be "crazy".....

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If you don't want a man unhappy politically, don't give him two sides to a question to worry him; give him one. Better yet, give him none. Let him forget there is such a thing as war. If the Government is inefficient, top-heavy, and tax-mad, better it is all those than that people worry over it. Peace, Montag.
Fahrenheit 451

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Re: 9/11 today and yesterday

Post  Angelic on Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:55 pm

Celia Eriksson wrote:Well, the only post I saw of yours is still there Angel, so I can categorically promise you that I have not done anything. Celia xx

I'm not a fool. I would haver never placed betting money on you  being the one to delete my post, I just didn't know if other mods were online or not.
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Re: 9/11 today and yesterday

Post  Angelic on Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:56 pm

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