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It has started...

Post  MichaelaSJ on Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:34 am

I am watching a Netflix docudrama titled '22 July' [2011]. This is a date I am sure Celia has etched into her memory. The trailer for the movie jogged my synapses and I remember the news reports that that the government building in Osla was bombed, much like the government building in Oklahoma City, sixteen years earlier. I also remember the horror when the news reported a gunman had killed 68 children and sponsors on a holiday island, Utøya Island outside of Oslo. The killer, a lone monster, a right-wing terrorist Anders Behring Breivikan blew up the building hoping to have toppled the government. He then went to a holiday island, and killed the 68 children and their sponsors because they were the children of Norway's elite. All told his death penalty was over 70 killed and 200 injured.

His justification was the influx of non-white immigrants into Norway and Scandanavia generally.

In one scene in the movie, the murderer's attorney, Geir Lippestad is talking with an ultra-right wing neo-nazi individual - the conversation goes, 'he [Breivikan] says a war is coming' and the neo-nazi says 'I'd say the war is already started'.

A bit later the attorney then asks the nazi about what is happening in America, 'Storm front. Growing fast! Very fast, joining up with Europe'.

Chicken Little ran around yelling the sky is falling the sky is falling. I have never been one to jump wildly onto band wagons for this issue or that issue. I am mostly a skeptic and it takes a while for me to come to a rational conclusion about most things. But not this.

Trump is ginning up the masses, much like Mussolini and Hitler did in the 1930s.
In the closing weeks of last year’s special election in Georgia, Republicans used footage of a riot by Antifa — a fringe sect that views the Democratic party with contempt — to characterize the moderate Democratic nominee Jon Ossoff as a dangerous loon. In the closing weeks of the 2018 midterm elections, Republicans have taken this message national. Democrats are an “angry mob,” charges President Trump. “You don’t hand matches to an arsonist, and you don’t give power to an angry, left-wing mob. And that’s what the Democrats have become.”
I do not see things in the corner or hear voices down the hall calling me to be afraid, but I am. I felt hatred for George W. Bush when he sent our Nation to war in Iraq and Afghanistan. But I did not fear him (although maybe I should have). But Trump is different. Whereas Bush made very bad decisions, Trump is using a voice not heard since the rise of Nazi Germany and The Brown Shirts of Italy.
At a campaign rally in Iowa Tuesday night President Donald Trump became the leader of an angry mob. Stoking up the fury of the crowd, the president blamed California Senator Dianne Feinstein for the sexual assault allegations against Brett Kavanaugh. As he did so, his unhinged audience began chanting ‘lock her up,' referring to the senior senator from California.
President Donald Trump urged evangelical leaders this week to get out the vote ahead of the upcoming midterm elections and warned of "violence" by opponents if they fail.

Trump made the dire warning at a White House dinner Monday evening attended by dozens of conservative Christian pastors, ministers and supporters of his administration.

Trump was stressing the stakes in November when he warned that, if Democrats win, they "will overturn everything that we've done and they'll do it quickly and violently," according to attendees and audio of his closed-door remarks obtained by media outlets, including The New York Times. He specifically mentioned self-described antifa, or anti-fascist groups, describing them as "violent people."
Asked Wednesday what he meant, Trump told reporters, "I just hope there won't be violence."
I was sitting with my Wife a couple of nights ago after watching the news and I told her, he [Trump] is taking us towards a civil war.

Then this popped up on my screen tonight:
Minutes after an event at a Manhattan Republican club meant to celebrate violence against leftists, attendees belonging to a proto-fascist, pro-Trump street gang reportedly pummeled three people on the sidewalk in Manhattan’s Upper East Side while shouting homophobic slurs.

Footage posted online by video journalist Sandi Bachom shows a group of men who appear to be Proud Boys — a misogynistic and anti-Muslim fraternity known for committing acts of political violence across the country — kicking and punching three apparent anti-fascist protesters as they lay prone on the sidewalk.
“Do you feel brave now, faggot?” one of the attackers yelled, according to Bachom and another journalist, photographer Shay Horse. Another video shows multiple attackers yelling “faggot.”

It has started and I am fucking scared, really, really fucking scared!

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If you don't want a man unhappy politically, don't give him two sides to a question to worry him; give him one. Better yet, give him none. Let him forget there is such a thing as war. If the Government is inefficient, top-heavy, and tax-mad, better it is all those than that people worry over it. Peace, Montag.
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Re: It has started...

Post  Lenneth on Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:43 am

the violence is only between extremists of 2 political factions, lets hope it stays that way and fizzles out.
both sides have known extremist groups, neither is correct in initiating aggression.
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Re: It has started...

Post  Lesley Niyori on Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:45 pm

Mother nature doesn't do politics.

Hurricane Micheal wasn't interested in who she stomped on.
The next hurricane won't care either. And the next one and the next one and the next one.

2018 might not be as bad as 2017 was. 2019, who knows.
It's not going to get better though.

This year has seen some bad fires in places even I thought were not a problem.
Canada is a wet country, and regardless, it is having troubles with fires.
Next year there will be bad fires.
It's not going to get better.

Let the fucking retards of our politics fight, I don't give a flying fuck.
Mother nature is not going to care who she kills.
And that will mean white Christian fucking scum, as well as LGBT individuals.
The rich won't be any better off.
Our society is based on money. And when our society crashes and burns from the house burning down, it will fail.
And it won't be pretty.

Maybe we are doomed as a species.
Maybe the survivors will find enough pieces to put it back together, eventually.
I'm not worried about Orwell's 1984.
I'm concerned about a lot of science fiction plots I have read about happening sooner than later.

Currently, our science is attached to a lot of capable research and technological innovations.
If our society collapses, all of the research and technology goes with it.
We are able to monitor our planet because we able to see it through the eyes of our devices and our information technology. When that goes, well, it will mean we won't see mom coming.

And mom is indeed coming.
And she's not a lot of flaky crap in a 2000 year old book.
And there is no happy ending with mom.

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Re: It has started...

Post  MichaelaSJ on Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:05 pm

Lenneth wrote:the violence is only between extremists of 2 political factions, lets hope it stays that way and fizzles out.
both sides have known extremist groups, neither is correct in initiating aggression.
I agree that the Antifa is a group of extremists, but they are small and mostly noisy. Trump will use this group as a catalyst for his greater message regarding the left in general and Dems specifically.

Whether he understands what he is doing is immaterial. He is rousing up the hatred the white lower middle class in the U.S. thinks is happening to them.

Trump is taking on half of the country with his 'Democrats are the mod' rhetoric. You may want to call up the movie 'Cabaret' on Netflix and watch what happens as you watch the worldwide with blinders.
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Lesley Niyori wrote:Mother nature doesn't do politics.
Lesley, thank you for your simplistic deflection of what is happening in my Country and not your sleepy little village.

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If you don't want a man unhappy politically, don't give him two sides to a question to worry him; give him one. Better yet, give him none. Let him forget there is such a thing as war. If the Government is inefficient, top-heavy, and tax-mad, better it is all those than that people worry over it. Peace, Montag.
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Re: It has started...

Post  Lesley Niyori on Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:40 am

Wasn't meant as a deflection.

There's a lot of really crappy shit happening in the US at the political level.
And in the end, Mother Nature simply isn't going to care.

She's not going to care if you are a Trump type, or a total Left fanatic.
She's not doing the whole smite em for their wickedness thing.

Florida is the last place to buy property. California is going to eventually run out of water and I suppose everything will eventually be burnt down soon enough.
I would not want to live in a grain belt either.
And the Atlantic coast ain't going to be a great place soon enough.

The US is becoming a nation where 2 or more groups are fighting within a building that is part burning down, part blown away in a hurricane and about to have water supply problems.

And yet, no one seems to be interested in that detail.

Today I learned the US won't let Canadians into the US if they have been indulging legal marijuana in Canada. Fucked if I know why I'd want to go there. I doubt I'd feel safe in the transphobic US.

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Re: It has started...

Post  MichaelaSJ on Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:16 am

Lesley Niyori wrote:And in the end, Mother Nature simply isn't going to care.
Eventually, a city sized asteroid or comet will once again collide with the Earth destroying most if not all life.

What is your fucking point?

Lesley Niyori wrote:Today I learned the US won't let Canadians into the US if they have been indulging legal marijuana in Canada. Fucked if I know why I'd want to go there. I doubt I'd feel safe in the transphobic US.
I invite you to stay home in your little hole in the wall hiding place.
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I once worked with a Canadian national who was in the U.S. on a H1-B work visa. His wife was doing a master degree at a state , MY STATE run university - the University of California, Berkeley, one of the world's formost universities. (Can you say that about any of your Canadian schools [maybe McGill, but what else]?)

He had the audacity to tell me that my government was fucked up. Since I reported to him at the time I held my tongue as best I could - but I did make it absolutely clear I could get his visa, and his wife's visa pulled with an anonymous letter to out State Department. He quieted down.

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If you don't want a man unhappy politically, don't give him two sides to a question to worry him; give him one. Better yet, give him none. Let him forget there is such a thing as war. If the Government is inefficient, top-heavy, and tax-mad, better it is all those than that people worry over it. Peace, Montag.
Fahrenheit 451

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Re: It has started...

Post  Celia Eriksson on Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:23 am

Hi Everyone!

Well, returning to the subject, Breivik was considered not to be criminally insane, but almost certainly had mental health issues. I remember that day and the news was not easy to take and watching the news was difficult for me. It's not something I am wanting to write about much, that's for sure.

But, firstly, I wanted to say I am sure that in a couple of years, sanity upon green politics will return to the USA. We are quick to dismiss China as being unaware of green issues, well, that is not so true anymore, they are awakening to it. I have hope for the world, but many things need to change quite soon.

The majority of sane individuals in the USA will prevent right wing dominance of their nation and return to normality. Isolated incidents of far right thuggery has always existed, but has been contained in democratic nations, I am also sure no sane US citizen wants it to become the norm there and I am certain, with sure hope, that it will not... Celia xx

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Re: It has started...

Post  Angelic on Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:15 pm

Celia Eriksson wrote:Hi Everyone!

Well, returning to the subject, Breivik was considered not to be criminally insane, but almost certainly had mental health issues. I remember that day and the news was not easy to take and watching the news was difficult for me. It's not something I am wanting to write about much, that's for sure.

But, firstly, I wanted to say I am sure that in a couple of years, sanity upon green politics will return to the USA. We are quick to dismiss China as being unaware of green issues, well, that is not so true anymore, they are awakening to it. I have hope for the world, but many things need to change quite soon.

The majority of sane individuals in the USA will prevent right wing dominance of their nation and return to normality. Isolated incidents of far right thuggery has always existed, but has been contained in democratic nations, I am also sure no sane US citizen wants it to become the norm there and I am certain, with sure hope, that it will not... Celia xx

I strongly dislike the left and I strongly dislike the right.

The right is an anti-drug conspiracy to fund cartels. They are insane. So what if a Canadian smokes some pot. Bring them here. There is no way to reason with the right or left. Both are part of the same agenda. Both left and right, are nightmare fuel.
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Re: It has started...

Post  Lesley Niyori on Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:13 pm

"What is your fucking point?"

There might be little point in worrying over anything at all.
Trump will likely not be going anywhere too soon.
Trump will likely do serious harm to his nation.
His lies and his behaviour are a serious danger to the nation.

But in 50 years, it might not be relevant if the country just rolls over and dies from environmental repercussions.

Whether or not it is safe to live in Florida due to political decisions, might not be worth the effort to care if the state ends up under water.

Racism in the US might not be much of a concern if the grain belt dies taking whomever is there with it indiscriminately.

You can't eat money, and no amount of money will buy non-existent food. So being a rich elite, won't save the rich elite if they let their land flood/burn/dry up and blow away.

Trump is flat out denying what is coming.
Maybe he WANTS Joe American to die.

They're returning to coal. Coal is the source of the problem.
He's inciting violence. Maybe he WANTS a civil war.

Meanwhile, you just seem to want to insult my being Canadian, and I have to wonder, do you really think it bothers me, that you hope I DO stay here. Fuck, it's so American to say "well then don't come" as if I were planning to change my mind Smile

I'm sitting in the place you are going to want to be soon enough.
I'm going to be ok if you wish to, when you need to.
I've got wilderness the likes of which me thinks most Americans can't conceive of sitting up here.
We've all heard it before, Texas and how 'big' it is. Montana and its big sky. I can put both Texas and Montana in North Ontario and not notice they're up there.

The biggest problem with the US is the notion its the pinnacle of existence on this planet.
It's not the biggest, or the bestest, or the freest place.
It's rapidly becoming one of the most dangerous though.

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Re: It has started...

Post  MichaelaSJ on Mon Oct 15, 2018 6:03 pm

Lesley, nihilism fits your outlook well. Keep your head up.

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If you don't want a man unhappy politically, don't give him two sides to a question to worry him; give him one. Better yet, give him none. Let him forget there is such a thing as war. If the Government is inefficient, top-heavy, and tax-mad, better it is all those than that people worry over it. Peace, Montag.
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Re: It has started...

Post  Lesley Niyori on Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:39 pm

MichaelaSJ wrote:Lesley, nihilism fits your outlook well. Keep your head up.

Definition of nihilism. 1a : a viewpoint that traditional values and beliefs are unfounded and that existence is senseless and useless Nihilism is a condition in which all ultimate values lose their value.— Ronald H. Nash. b : a doctrine that denies any objective ground of truth and especially of moral truths.

Merriam-Webster

Not according to Merriam-Webster.

I have traditional values. I actually make most femms cringe.
I think a lot of religious beliefs have value, that is not to say I support a lot of the skewed dogma that pretends to support those beliefs. Most Christians are not preaching Christ's teachings. Ironic.
Existence isn't senseless. Ignoring the truth though can make a lot of effort pointless though.

Me thinks you just don't like that I refuse to espouse the American viewpoint.

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Re: It has started...

Post  MichaelaSJ on Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:08 am

Lesley Niyori wrote:Me thinks you just don't like that I refuse to espouse the American viewpoint.
Me thinks that you believe you have a Canadian right to disparage my home while I have to stay quiet about your homestead.

I still think that your general outlook on life is nihilistic. Your view on 'mother-nature' in your previous posts gives rise to my generalization on your personal outlook.

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If you don't want a man unhappy politically, don't give him two sides to a question to worry him; give him one. Better yet, give him none. Let him forget there is such a thing as war. If the Government is inefficient, top-heavy, and tax-mad, better it is all those than that people worry over it. Peace, Montag.
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Re: It has started...

Post  Lesley Niyori on Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:06 pm

MichaelaSJ wrote:
Lesley Niyori wrote:Me thinks you just don't like that I refuse to espouse the American viewpoint.
Me thinks that you believe you have a Canadian right to disparage my home while I have to stay quiet about your homestead.

I still think that your general outlook on life is nihilistic. Your view on 'mother-nature' in your previous posts gives rise to my generalization on your personal outlook.

I'm not disparaging your home, I'm savaging your government.

The US has some beautiful countryside in it. Some of the most beautiful places in the world.

The US government though is a cancerous growth on humanity. A festering eyesore.
The current president couldn't be any more worse, and yet, he still attempts to attain new levels of dreadful.
I'll say this about his supporters, they couldn't be any more expendable if they tried.
They're going to leave a scar on the nation the likes of which will probably never be entirely healed. I thought Vietnam was going to be hard to beat, but, that horrible moment was bested before 2017 was over. It's only gotten worse this year.

Heck, if you don't like me stating the obvious about the US government, I'd strongly suggest you not ask anyone else for an opinion.

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Re: It has started...

Post  mariehart1 on Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:03 pm

I don't really buy into doom mongering environmentalism. Yes the climate is changing, evolving. But we'll do what humans did since we first stood upright. We'll adapt and survive. But I believe it's the height of human hubris that we humans can stop it or slow it down. There is a lot of 'fake news' and scare mongering surrounding the topic. Not that I object to reducing pollution and the rest of it. That's a good thing.

On the other hand Trump and his cronies are a clear and present danger not just because of what they do but because of what they encourage as in extremism, bigotry hatred. The polarity of politics in the US right now is an example. Democrats v Republicans has echoes of Communist v Fascist. Populism is on the increase throughout the world not just in America. Whether or not it escalates is not yet certain but the signs are there. His supporters support him no matter what even when he flip flops from one week to the next. Putin is another example, Erdogan another. So far arresting his opponents and repressing the media is not on his agenda, not yet anyway. But he does demonise both. You might think America is a robust democracy and so it is. But we all know about the McCarthy era in the fifties. When people were pilloried as 'enemies of the people's. Where have we heard that recently?
It may be the thin edge of the wedge or it might be a short sharp shock to Americans when they realise what they're doing.
Time will tell.

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Re: It has started...

Post  Angelic on Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:01 pm

mariehart1 wrote:US right now is an example. Democrats v Republicans  has echoes of Communist v Fascist. 
Time will tell.
Pretty much yes.
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Re: It has started...

Post  MichaelaSJ on Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:26 pm

Lesley, I cannot believe how dense you seem to be.
Lesley Niyori wrote:I'm not disparaging your home, I'm savaging your government.

The US has some beautiful countryside in it. Some of the most beautiful places in the world
Your comment is a lot like going over to a friends house and saying, 'I hate your parent's rules, but wow, great new carpet!'.

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If you don't want a man unhappy politically, don't give him two sides to a question to worry him; give him one. Better yet, give him none. Let him forget there is such a thing as war. If the Government is inefficient, top-heavy, and tax-mad, better it is all those than that people worry over it. Peace, Montag.
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Re: It has started...

Post  Angelic on Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:09 pm

MichaelaSJ wrote:Lesley, I cannot believe how dense you seem to be.
Lesley Niyori wrote:I'm not disparaging your home, I'm savaging your government.

The US has some beautiful countryside in it. Some of the most beautiful places in the world
Your comment is a lot like going over to a friends house and saying, 'I hate your parent's rules, but wow, great new carpet!'.
I'm not allowed to talk to Lesley or insult Lesley so this discussion is between you and me.

No, it isn't. The government is not our parents, its our nannies.

And if my friend said they didn't like my parent's rules, 9 times out of 10 I'd agree.

I think you are being far, far too patriotic to such a corrupt and backwards nation. Micheala, its time for you to red pill.
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Re: It has started...

Post  Lesley Niyori on Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:48 pm

MichaelaSJ wrote:Lesley, I cannot believe how dense you seem to be.
Lesley Niyori wrote:I'm not disparaging your home, I'm savaging your government.

The US has some beautiful countryside in it. Some of the most beautiful places in the world
Your comment is a lot like going over to a friends house and saying, 'I hate your parent's rules, but wow, great new carpet!'.

I could say something, but, I'm just going to let it pass.

You think I'm dense, for refusing to say warm fuzzies about Trump and his government of racist fucking swine, and sexist fucking pigs, and well let's just accept that after saying that, it's not like I need to say more, if the preceding wasn't enough, then nothing I say will ever be sufficient.

Everyone that isn't part of the solution IS part of the problem.
Trump SHOULD already be gone.
He isn't... why the fuck he is still in power is what is wrong with the US.
No, I'm not planning to shut up about that.

IF I was an American (I'm glad I'm not), I WOULD be fighting back. I wouldn't be silently protesting. Nope, I'd be removing the problem with extreme prejudice. I wouldn't be fighting them in the courts either. I wouldn't be fighting them with the vote. I'd be using the 2nd amendment as it was meant to be employed. I'd be getting rid of the problem, forcibly.

I'm NOT an American, thankfully, and thus, it is NOT my problem.

As such, when I see the problems besetting Americans, and they complain, I'm left to wonder, "Well, what have you done about it (the problem). Is it working? If not, when we you planning to change your methods.

The thing is, me, I'm all about transgender concerns at the political level. So my thoughts re the US tend to be somewhat transgender issues centric.

My country isn't perfect. And there is always a chance for a politician to create harm here. And the premier of Ontario is sure trying hard to do just that. And you can be assured, if the day ever came, where he became a real 'threat' to my life, yes, I'd be inclined to probably DO something about it.

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Re: It has started...

Post  MichaelaSJ on Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:44 am

Lesley Niyori wrote:Everyone that isn't part of the solution IS part of the problem.
Actually, the original quote was said by an individual with a lot more forethought:
You're either part of the solution or you're part of the problem.
Eldridge Cleaver*
I apologize for letting this thread get out of hand.

*Widely attributed to him

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If you don't want a man unhappy politically, don't give him two sides to a question to worry him; give him one. Better yet, give him none. Let him forget there is such a thing as war. If the Government is inefficient, top-heavy, and tax-mad, better it is all those than that people worry over it. Peace, Montag.
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