Brain Study Good Sign

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Brain Study Good Sign

Post  KariS on Wed May 23, 2018 11:48 am

Found this very uplifting towards scientific verification for the masses.

https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/05/22/brain-scan-can-tell-kids-if-theyre-transgender-study-shows/
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Re: Brain Study Good Sign

Post  Lesley Niyori on Wed May 23, 2018 12:03 pm

Nice post Kari.

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Re: Brain Study Good Sign

Post  Lucy Catherine Schoon on Wed May 23, 2018 12:11 pm

Just been rowing with feminists about this over on digital spy....

"There's no such thing as male and female brains.....grrrrr!!!!"

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Re: Brain Study Good Sign

Post  Lesley Niyori on Fri May 25, 2018 5:45 am

Started this on Discord.
quote
Brain scans. Here's a thought I have, I want to discuss this nicely if possible. Not at all, if it turns nasty. So yeah, brain scans, female or male. That's very binary. I mean, if a brain can be shown to be 'male' or 'female', what does that mean for 'non-binary'? I'm ok with people saying they are binary. I'm ok with people saying they are religious too. The thing is, 'religious' is a choice. Is 'non-binary' really a 'choice' in the same way 'atheist' is a choice? Are non-binary people either 'male' or 'female' and just unwilling to be either by 'choice'? I will confess, non-binary people confuse the heck out of me. Me, I'm a very binary female. Just happen to be a transgender female. I'm also a hetero transgender female. I'm zero percent gay. I like men. I'm a female. I'm hetero.

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Re: Brain Study Good Sign

Post  KariS on Fri May 25, 2018 9:25 am

I am confused by Non Binary myself. As much as I want to respect it may not be a choice, I am unsure. This doesn't mean I won't try to respect them, but I would like some more understanding. I guess I would just like more studies done to show non-binary is not just a choice. Also what is wrong if it is just a choice? Science is questioning everything not proven. The problem is too many people think that means that if it is unproven it is not real.

I was also reading about how this new study is being seen as further gatekeeping. Which can be a valid concern, but that does not make this a bad thing. It may indeed become a hurdle. That does not mean that those who don't show on a scan are not trans though. I see this as just another way to help determine if someone is trans. It will also further the study and verification that we aren't just crazy people.

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Re: Brain Study Good Sign

Post  sophiecantdance on Fri May 25, 2018 1:28 pm

That does not mean that those who don't show on a scan are not trans though.

That is my concern as well. Until you can prove that 100% of trans people share this trait, it possibly confuses and already divisive topic.
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Re: Brain Study Good Sign

Post  MichaelaSJ on Fri May 25, 2018 1:36 pm

The problem with scientific studies about anything is:

1) they are preaching to the cognoscenti and therefore superfluous, and
2) the audience that you are trying to educated about anything scientific doesn't believe in science, therefore all scientific studies are lies, or at the very best, LIES.

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Re: Brain Study Good Sign

Post  KariS on Fri May 25, 2018 2:02 pm

While this is a concern, how many will it help?  The real question needs to be how many trans does it not detect.  To jump on it like it is a negative is not constructive though.

I really think this can be a good thing.  At the very least it is a starting point for more in depth studies.  With further studies a zero left behind solution may be found.  We should be vocal about continuing these studies, but also support those left behind.  

To say this is a bad thing though seems unproductive.  Could this muddy the waters yes, but that is where we as a community need to demand more study not less.  I worry that if we don't we may create cases where someone becomes Dysphoric due to transition.  

We should not discount the idea that some are just confused.  We should still support them and help them discover if they are or not.  It's a difficult situation for all of us, and I wish there was one simple test.  I hope one day there will be.

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Re: Brain Study Good Sign

Post  Papillon on Fri May 25, 2018 6:38 pm

I am of course not averse to scientific discovery, but I think this nature/nurture dichotomy is missing the point. People should be respected enough to self-determine even if it were a choice.


Last edited by Papillon on Sat May 26, 2018 12:19 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Brain Study Good Sign

Post  Lesley Niyori on Fri May 25, 2018 6:50 pm

Papillon wrote:I am of course not averse to scientific discovery, but I think this nature/nurture dichotomy is missing the point. People should be respected enough to self-determine even if it [/i] were[/i] a choice.

Agreed.

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Re: Brain Study Good Sign

Post  MichaelaSJ on Fri May 25, 2018 7:13 pm

Papillon wrote:People should be respected enough to self-determine even if it [/i] were[/i] a choice.
But free will is only valid in the context of god. If you freely think one way, god's way, you are safe, if you freely think contrary to god's way, you are wrong.

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Re: Brain Study Good Sign

Post  Papillon on Sat May 26, 2018 12:23 am

I really really don't care what any zealot or their god has to say about me. But besides, it's irrational and no amount of scientific evidence will sway their opinion either way.

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Re: Brain Study Good Sign

Post  Lesley Niyori on Sat May 26, 2018 6:08 am

The free will concept is a crock.

First off, anyone speaking of 'God' will tell you God made everything past present and future.
Second, anyone speaking of 'God' will tell you God knows all, past present and future.
They're serious, and they are also unable to think straight.
Because if the above is true, then God created Lucifer on purpose, knew precisely what he was doing when he made Lucifer, knew Lucifer would do what Lucifer did.
Thus, Lucifer gets a walk, as Lucifer never had any say in any action ever taken.
So that means even the primary target of responsibility for everything evil, is NOT guilty of anything ever.
Sin, as it is written simply, isn't anyone's fault, as God made you that way intentionally and by design.

There is no such thing as free will by this understanding.

To give it the transgender spin, if there is a 'God' you were made transgender and not one of your choices was ever yours to make. Pre-op, post-op, none of it. When you came out, not your choice. If you don't come out, again, not your choice.

As you can see, religion and the religious can't be very good at organized thinking.

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Re: Brain Study Good Sign

Post  Lucy Catherine Schoon on Sat May 26, 2018 6:20 am

Lesley Niyori wrote:The free will concept is a crock.

First off, anyone speaking of 'God' will tell you God made everything past present and future.
Second, anyone speaking of 'God' will tell you God knows all, past present and future.
They're serious, and they are also unable to think straight.
Because if the above is true, then God created Lucifer on purpose, knew precisely what he was doing when he made Lucifer, knew Lucifer would do what Lucifer did.
Thus, Lucifer gets a walk, as Lucifer never had any say in any action ever taken.
So that means even the primary target of responsibility for everything evil, is NOT guilty of anything ever.
Sin, as it is written simply, isn't anyone's fault, as God made you that way intentionally and by design.

There is no such thing as free will by this understanding.

To give it the transgender spin, if there is a 'God' you were made transgender and not one of your choices was ever yours to make. Pre-op, post-op, none of it. When you came out, not your choice. If you don't come out, again, not your choice.

As you can see, religion and the religious can't be very good at organized thinking.

I'm gonna brake my rule about not getting into a religious discussion on a trans board,


If an all powerful god knows everything, including what your going to do before before you do it, why should he bother to get angry or test anyone?

The whole of the Old Testament is full of stories of him getting angry because people disappoint him. Surely he already knew they were gonna do that, didn't he?

He could of prevented that before it happened, but chose not to.... so, he can't really complain.

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Re: Brain Study Good Sign

Post  Lesley Niyori on Sat May 26, 2018 8:36 am

It seems we are both on the same page Smile

So much of the Bible is so utterly full of shit.
It's amazing I indulged it as long as I did.

True, if you read something called Treasury of the Encyclopedia Britannica.
https://www.amazon.com/Treasury-Encyclopaedia-Britannica-Clifton-Fadiman/dp/0670835684
A truly interesting coffee table book I once had, it makes it plain as hell that we humans have seriously believed in some seriously fucked up 'science' over the centuries.

The main difference between science and religion though, is when someone demonstrates clearly, the science is wrong, the error is eliminated. Not always willingly, but, it does get corrected.
When someone points out an obvious error on the Bible, you get called a heretic, or an unbeliever, or religiously intolerant, likely all of the above, and they simply ignore you.

It's possible a doctor, with a medical tool, can look at you with that tool and tell you, "dear, you might have been put in an ostensibly male looking form, but, this machine makes it somewhat plain, you're a girl on the inside. And odds are he will be right often enough to call it reliable.
Nothing is ever absolute of course. That's life.

I had to tolerate 2 years of crap prior to surgery, because 1 person in a 1000 surgeries concludes, "this was a mistake". Put another way, 999 people have to suffer for the sake of that one person.
Put yet another way, I don't give a flying fuck for any of those out there, that detransition. Really. I don't care.

I also don't care if you buy a house you regret. I don't care if you buy a car that turns out to be a bad purchase. I don't care if you marry the wrong person. I don't care if that job is so totally the wrong job.

Shit happens when you make decisions some days.
I'm going to take my brand new bike out for a ride today.
Might be the wrongest choice possible.
Who knows eh. I might fall off the stairs going out or returning home.
I might fall and badly hurt myself while out in the middle of nowhere.
I also might accidentally meet the man of my dreams too of course.

I chose to indulge religion for many years.
Recently, something happened, and I chose to tell religion to get the fuck out of my life as well.
It might mean I can't hang out with people I like on Sunday at church. But I'm not going to 'fake it' just to be there.
My ladies book club is more or less women of the church. I'm keeping that event though.

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