Referendum in Ireland

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Referendum in Ireland

Post  sophiecantdance on Fri May 25, 2018 2:01 pm

The Irish people hit the polls today to decide whether or not to alter their constitution to legalize abortion which was made illegal in 1983.
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Re: Referendum in Ireland

Post  Lesley Niyori on Fri May 25, 2018 2:43 pm

Was not aware it was illegal, but then it's Ireland which is sure Catholic.

I wonder how 30 years will make a difference.

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Re: Referendum in Ireland

Post  Celia Eriksson on Fri May 25, 2018 3:02 pm

Well, it is a very touchy subject and can bring out the very worst in some folk. I believe it is right that a women should decide. But the period of time has always seemed too long in the UK to me. 24 weeks, five and half months seems a bit long for the foetus is quite developed that far in.

3 months, (13 weeks), seems plenty for a woman to know and it is also much safer a limit for the health of the woman. I realise there are many reasons why certain women and girls hide pregnancy, others, amazingly do not realise they are, sometimes coz periods are intermittent, especially with older women, but it is my opinion that 24 weeks is way too long.

I happen to know, without looking up figures, that the vast majority of abortions are within 13 weeks  I hope Ireland accepts that some pregnancies are not welcome and if so, sets a shorter time limit than the UK.

Celia xx

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Re: Referendum in Ireland

Post  MichaelaSJ on Fri May 25, 2018 6:19 pm

One of the reasons I am no longer a catholic, much less a believer in a god, is due to a program I watched when I was in my late pre-teens.

The catholic church would put on Sunday morning sermonettes on various subjects. One morning, a married man and a woman were in the hospital. The woman was pregnant and in labor. The hospital's chaplain, a catholic priest, stopped by to console the husband as his wife had been in labor, a very painful labor and fruitless labor for the better part of a day.

The woman was not a candidate for surgery, including a cesarean section for some reason and in fact, any surgery would kill the woman. It was determined that the fetal head was much too large to pass through the birth canal and the only way to save the woman would be to crush the fetus's head OR she would end up in a very painful and inevitable death together with the fetus.

The man asked advice of the priest who said it was against god's will to kill the baby - for any reason, including saving the woman's life. EVEN IF IT MEANT SAVING THE WOMAN'S LIFE Exclamation

So, there we have the man, the husband and would be father, head in hands, being consoled by the priest when the attending doctor walks in and says his wife has died because they couldn't abort the birth.

The final scene is the priest asking the man to pray with him for his wife's salvation in heaven.

WHAT THE FUCK!
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Re: Referendum in Ireland

Post  sophiecantdance on Fri May 25, 2018 6:34 pm

@celia I agree that it is a touchy subject, but the like with  (my opinion on) the death penalty, if you cannot be 100% then you cannot do it. In Ireland one of the big rallying cries for the 'yes' campaign is  Savita Halappanavar, who spent three days in a labour that the doctors knew would result in a miscarriage, and ended up dying herself while attempting this untenable birth. She was denied an abortion based on their (religious) constitutional laws, and was not able to make the trip to England like many Irish women do when seeking an abortion.

Hi Sophie!

Yes, I see and agree that is terrible! It is not like shortening the period of pregnancy, that is to qualify for an abortion would of made any difference for that unfortunate woman. Of course, there are many complex choices that can be thrown into the prenatal and neonatal periods and many areas are very grey, as many things are in life, (common sense and parental choice should prevail) and no amount of legislation could cover it.

Celia xx
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The horror of religion

Post  MichaelaSJ on Fri May 25, 2018 7:10 pm

I found this on HuffPo right after my post:
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/catholic-hospitals-refuse-to-treat_us_5b06c82fe4b05f0fc8458db3
The Trump administration is poised to hand religious conservatives another victory: a slew of new federal rules that would give religious health care providers wide latitude to refuse to treat patients or perform procedures if doing so would violate their religious beliefs.

Some of the most powerful hospital networks in the country have lobbied for these “conscience” rules, claiming they shouldn’t fear a legal risk for practicing medicine according to their religious beliefs. But those same hospital networks are already using religious justifications to place women in life-threatening situations with impunity, documents obtained by HuffPost show.

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Re: Referendum in Ireland

Post  MichaelaSJ on Fri May 25, 2018 10:56 pm

It passed
DUBLIN (Reuters) - Irish voters are set to liberalize one of the world’s most restrictive abortion laws by a margin of 68 percent to 32 percent, an exit poll showed on Friday, following one of the highest reported turnouts for a referendum.

Voters in the once deeply Catholic country were asked if they wish to scrap a prohibition that was enshrined in the constitution by referendum 35 years ago, and partly lifted in 2013 only for cases where the mother’s life is in danger.

The Irish Times/Ipsos MRBI exit poll surveyed 4,000 voters at 160 polling stations in every constituency of Ireland. A second exit poll will be released later on Friday with vote-counting to begin at 0800 GMT on Saturday.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/ireland-abortion-vote-exit-poll_us_5b087cebe4b0802d69cb40f1

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Re: Referendum in Ireland

Post  mariehart1 on Sat May 26, 2018 12:35 am

Ugh after a ridiculously complex register. I am on board. Yes it's Marie.
I voted yes. Indeed I was angry at the blatant lies of the No campaign. I was looking forward to blasting the any no people who turned up on my doorstep. Worse, many of them were young women, naïve and stupid, religious morons. The Catholic church stayed out of it because they have been exposed as bigoted, paedophiles. In any case many are gay, which isn't an insult just a fact.
My wife became seriously ill a couple of weeks before my first child was born. She went into hospital. I felt sick but as a 'man' I stuck it out. Luckily it worked out. But she has no memory of our first boys's birth. She was out of it and only remembered several days later. After he was born. I went home, her sister was there. We hugged, she's a lovely person and knew I needed it.

It worked out. But Savita Halappanavar was not so lucky. You see she died in the same hospital maybe the same room because the law allowed her to die.

Back in '83 I was a young 'man' but I voted against the constitutional amendment that is the eigtht amendment. It was clearly a bigoted rule and the pathetic political parties at the time, in the trall of the Catholic church allowed it to happen.


Now I don't like abortion. But I'm a realist. I voted yes because I live in the real world and if I was pregnant and it was not convenient I might do that.


But it seems we underestimate the common sense of the Irish people. We are not Catholic, we are a liberal European country. Catholic in culture, like the French or the Italians but a modern liberal country.


The exit polls prove it. If our marriage referendum didn't. Most people are not gay but we voted for gay marriage. Most of us are not in favour of abortion but we understand.


Oh for heaven's sake our Prime Minister is gay and half Indian.


Seriously this country is the poster boy of liberal tolerance.

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Re: Referendum in Ireland

Post  Lesley Niyori on Sat May 26, 2018 12:51 am

Meanwhile in the US, well you have my sympathies if you live in the US.

Good on you Ireland.
I agree with Marie, not really a fan of abortion, but hey, if I was in the situation, yeah, suddenly everything changes eh.

I want to be able to have a baby so damned much.
But that is a choice eh.

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Re: Referendum in Ireland

Post  MichaelaSJ on Sat May 26, 2018 1:11 am

No one should 'like abortion' but there are many reasons, AND EACH AS VALID AS THE REST, for a woman (or female child) to want to end a pregnancy.

When the 'right to lifers' are willing to pay for a pregnancy, adopt every newborn regardless of health, social or racial status, then maybe I may change my mind - unlikely that will ever happen.

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