13th and US incarceration.

Hi Everyone,

I have just watched 13th, a Netflix documentary focusing upon the 13th Amendment and the large incarceration of American people, it was quite the eye opener....

Did you know that the USA has 5% of the world's population. It also has incarcerated, in the USA, 25% of the world's entire prison population? That is unbelievable!

I remember Miki talking of Jim Crow and the laws, (a term that I had only ever heard of as referring to the Corvid bird, rather like Jenny Wren, Robin Redbreast, Tommy Titmouse or Mavis Thrush), I truly understand it's US connotation now, but am certain the British terminology has nothing to do with the American and probably preceded and caused its awfully different use in the US.

The documentary is well worth watching, it demonstrates great injustices black people have suffered..

Celia xx

The Thirteenth Amendment abolish slavery in the U.S. It was a very difficult amendment to pass and if you would like to understand the politics involved in its passage, watch Steven Spielberg's more than excellent 'Lincoln' (2012).

Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

While slavery is illegal and not openly practiced anymore, many states in the US have incarcerated people to make money from them.

Every license plate is made by prison labor. Some states use prisoners to make furniture used by the government. Several states are using prisoners to make robo-calls.

Michael Bloomberg was caught (not his fault) in using a PR firm that contracted with a southern state that used prisoners to make his political robo-calls. One might say "well, these are prisoners and why should we pay them anything". I can understand that, but in the case of the Bloomberg robo-calls, the state was being paid the minimum wage for each prisoner making the calls, but the prisoners were only be paid $0.15/hour.

The other thing that I am adamant about is the proliferation of privately run prisons. There are many documented cases of judges getting paid under the table for sending prisoners to this or that private prison. California, which has about 5 adult and juvenile private facilities has in their contracts with the operators of these private prisons minimum capacity requirements. Imagine that you have been convicted of a crime, maybe your first offense, that would normally be punished by probation, but instead you are sent to a state private prison because the private prison has a demand to have a guaranteed level of prisoners.

Our prison systems, our criminal justice systems are outdated and in many cases broken. This is not a Democrat or Republican problem. It is simply a problem of our society that does not give a damn about a large segment of our population and sees warehousing criminals as an expedient way of hiding from one of our many societal issues.

I took the time to watch the "13th".

I grew up in a mixed family - my mother was a racist, my Father was not.

My mother's heritage was Scot and from the Scots that immigrated to the Carolinas in the 1700s.
My Father was Irish Italian, once removed from the 'No Irish Need Apply' era.
I grew up in a lily white city. The first blacks I saw was where my Grandfather raised my Father. The blacks worked at the Naval Air Station, Alameda.
I remember when my Father took us around the US in 1956 to visit his war buddies we stopped at roadside café in Mississippi. I had to use the restroom and when I walked across the street I was confronted by a "Coloreds Only" sign. I look at the sadness in my Father's face and I immediately understood his anguish.

I remember the morning after Dr. King was killed and my Father learned of his assassination he came down the stairs crying and my mother said - 'well, I am glad, good riddance'.

I still live segregated from the black communities. It is not that I seek out to be segregated, it just works out that way - I can afford to live better than many.

I did not support the: The Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994. I sensed what it was and my initial thoughts were borne out by what happened next.

I did not support the: Unjust 'Crack Cocaine Law". I knew intuitively who was targeted.

I have never supported privatizing our prison system as I know what drives it - money.

It is always, ALWAYS about the fucking money.

Slavery only exists because one group of people enslave another group of people for an economic advantage. The slavery my Country accepted in its infancy allowed the southern states to gain tremendous economic advantage and when the 13th Amendment passed these same states took advantage of 'except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted' clause in the 13th Amendment and arrested black children and adults alike to provide the slave labor that was no longer allowed.

It is always, ALWAYS about the money.

While black males make up only 5% of our Country's population, they make up 40% of our prison population. Who is making the money off of these prisoners, the same southern states that held slaves before 1865 and who leased black prisoners after 1865 up and until the first of the 1900s.

Now, we have private prisons taking advantage of our willingness to incarcerate way more people and mostly black people than any other country. Why, because they make money off these prisoners, mostly black prisoners.

It is always, ALWAYS about the fucking money.
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If you have Netflix, devote and hour and a half and watch the '13th'. Please.

Hi Miki,

Yes, I have to totally agree with your sentiments. Parallel lives to agree to whit. I never encountered a black person in real life until a black man showed up at the Conservative club my Father frequented, children were allowed there and I often went along, I suppose I must have been between 12 and 14.. My Father was anti-immigration of anyone unless they were white American, Australian etc. But, to give him his due, he never was openly racist towards anyone and the man, I forget his name, was welcomed there without prejudice and became a regular for quite a while after as far as I know. I use to see him around whilst I lived in the neighbourhood, that's forty years ago.

These days, of course, it would be foolish to even regard someone as different, I am colour blind now, people are people to me and that is that...

I looked up Lincoln on Netflix, but unfortunately it is not on in England. So I will wait for it to come on other media. I do like biographical films, I just watched the Churchill one that was releasead a couple of years ago. It was very good, but seemed to finish to quickly into the whole thing and seemed obsessed with just one angle of his Prime Ministerial role during the war.

I long for the day that racism is quashed, when there are only colour blind people. The day that all humankind judge a person by their merits, their actions, their persona, their character and nothing else. I hope that day arrives sooner than later, but fear no person alive this day will see it.

Celia xx

It is not necessary to be color blind. In fact, it diminishes the person who is in front of you, and it diminishes you. You need to celebrate the person, regardless of their color, whether he, she, they is simply someone on a park bench or at dinner - you need to know that that person is not you and you need to know that and accept that.

You can decide if this person is to become a friend or not. But you need to celebrate who this person is and let it go at that.

With my ill health and being in and out of hospitals I have met a wonderful group of people and hardly one had the same skin color or spoke English as their first language and yet they made my life a bit easier and enriched my experience.

Miki,

I treat all people the same, whoever they may be, with no first impression of how they may look on the outside and I will always do that with any human, it does not deny any one of them of any of their own diversity whatsoever, or any of my wish to celebrate their diversity either.

Sorry, that is how I am, I would of course respect, so change slightly to adhere to a custom of any person's diversity, if it is quite normal and not discriminatory.

Celia xx.

Sorry Miki, I owe you an apology. Reading my comment back, it sounded rather brash, that was not my intention at all, I was just trying to explain my outlook on race and creed. Celia xx

Another recommendation to all on this dark anniversary of man's inhumanity to his fellow man.

I watched Operation Finale tonight, it was of the capture of Eichmann in Argentina in 1960. Quite gripping and emotional.

I kinda realised tonight, I don't know a single Jewish person and it is many years since I have done so. The Israelis are quite a resilient people and can totally rely upon each other, they would never have pulled off getting Eichmann out of Argentina without help from the Argentinian Jewish community,

I cannot imagine many national groups that would risk their lives, without question, for such a cause and within Israel itself, it is plain to see, they are almost to a man and woman, totally united.

This is so unlike other nations, here people are so different, the spectrum is many, many times wider both politically and socially. I believe that is true of nearly all Western societies.

Anyway it was a good movie.

Celia xx

True story:

Was in the hospital for a couple years and couldn't walk.
Finally released from the hospital and off to court where I was chained to my walker.
I hadn't paid my child support while in the hospital.
Then marched across the street under armed guard while my parents cried.

The police are openly anti trans bigots. I'm scared. I've been scared for years.
The streets aren't safe and the courts aren't safe here. I live in fear.

Oh my!

Where do you live SP? You can give a wide description if you are worried, but that is truly awful! They chained you coz of child maintenance? What kinda world are we living in!!!!!

England, the UK, has it's faults, but luckily I have never known such barbaric state behaviour here and most Brits embrace diversity. We do suffer bigotry.....  it's usually unsavoury comments to transgender people here and stuff like that, violence is quite rare.

Celia xx

Jailing non-payors of child support is not rare in the U.S. but it is seldom used.

It is likened to debtor's prison - we will jail you until you pay your bill (What, just because you are in jail and not able to earn anything is not an excuse for not paying your bill!)

Seven states (including my California[*]) have 'debtor prisons' mostly if an individual can not pay a court fee or fine. Arkansas allows the jailing of up to 3 months for someone for not paying rent.

The most absurd of all is unless you have the funds to pay the Bankruptcy Court Filing Fee, you cannot file for bankruptcy.

[*] I once spent 10 days in the San Diego County Jail because I couldn't pay the fine for being drunk in public. I had to spend another 30 days in the brig aboard my ship because I was AWOL for 10 days. Oh, well - that time is long behind me now.

Oh Miki,

I guess, people still get jailed here for debts. It's just the chain thing, that is harsh. The bankruptcy thing is pretty strange, you have to find backers, otherwise yes you can be jailed!

The Navy thing is well interesting! How on earth did you pass the time? I am pretty useless, I admit it..... I would be a hopeless sailor, soldier or airman, but I could do medic & office stuff I suppose. It does interest me though, the military, how you or anyone went through those days, I suppose I am lucky that conscription missed me by 15 years or so!

Celia xx

Being a sailor is at times boring, messy and goes against being a human regarding taking orders from someone you know is a POS but a superior in rank.

When my ship was in Vietnam, we worked 12 hour days, ate for 1 hour, played double deck Pinochle for a couple of hours and bathed or slept the rest.

For the latter half of my shipboard time I worked in an office as a aviation storekeeper. Keeping 77 airplanes and helicopters flying was a full-time job.

Below is an image I found a couple of years ago of me sitting on an F-4 Phantom jet waiting to get paid:

Oh Miki, I have seen that pic of you before and you were quite handsome that is for sure. I hope you were paid well for being cooped up on a boat full of fit men.... coming to think of it, I might just do that kinda thing for free!

I think, in all walks of life, most bosses are slimy, underhand POS, (as yous put it), coz they have to tread on someone and are usually aloof from the generalities of it all. I've been lucky, all of my bosses have always been very good to me and understanding. They have even been nicer to me than my cis women and men peers including the gay ones too.

Not so in my horseracing days though. I did encounter some pretty horrible people.

Anyway, thank you for your service, for I know the European navies, British mostly, have helped, but it is largely the USA that has kept us all safe and you were part of that. So thanks Miki!

Only thing is, you are sitting on the wing, you are gonna be the last one paid!!!!!! What if they ran out of cash!!!!!

Celia xx

Celia Eriksson wrote:Only thing is, you are sitting on the wing, you are gonna be the last one paid!

There is a saying that anyone who has spent time in the military will understand:
HURRY UP AND WAIT!
I always thought the WAIT part was better spent sitting somewhere

Celia Eriksson wrote:What if they ran out of cash!!!!!

Well, there was no need to carry a lot of cash onboard as there were only three places to spend the cash: for a haircut, to buy cigarettes and I forgot the third thing. Also, it was illegal to take cash with you if you were taking Liberty in the Philippines as they didn't want the Dollars to go to the Communists. We had to take 'script'.

As for running out of cash - NAH! They had millions on board to pay the crew.[/quote]
[/quote]

Well. I am....



God bless ya Miki!!! (But, shhhh, don't tell the Russians, they'll start boarding just to get the dosh!!!)

Celia xx

Celia Eriksson wrote:Oh my!

Where do you live SP? You can give a wide description if you are worried, but that is truly awful! They chained you coz of child maintenance? What kinda world are we living in!!!!!

England, the UK, has it's faults, but luckily I have never known such barbaric state behaviour here and most Brits embrace diversity. We do suffer bigotry.....  it's usually unsavoury comments to transgender people here and stuff like that, violence is quite rare.

Celia xx

Madison County, Illinois

What you're talking about is how people behave in the hospital here.
"It's here for some bloodwork."
"I don't know what it is but I ain't talkin to it."

I'm not an activist but I did have to file a complaint on that "It" talk.
It's disrespectful and degrading and damnit I was paying the bill to get treated like that?

That's hijacking so let's get back to the 13th.

My current employer is required by law to pay me minimum wage.
Which is my take home pay.

My salary is over 6 figures.

follow me here

Transsexual falls in love an gets married.
8 years later partner (wife) has remorse and starts pouring bleach all over my clothes.
So I try to stop her and she calls the police.

Who chain me at gunpoint in my own driveway, lock me up for 3 days with no charges, then throw me out in the cold January weather with nowhere to go. Even though she left, the police tell me they will arrest me if I go home.

So she turns on all the lights and leaves the windows and doors open. Neighbors are calling, police won't help and everything I own is being trashed or stolen.

In the divorce I got stuck with the bill to clean the trashed house, and have the broken remains of my belongings hauled to the dump. ($800) And I got stuck with the utility bill. ($2500)

Due to the damages to the house I was forced to sell at a loss of $60k in equity, and $8.5k cash. Then another $10k and still counting in lawyers.

And I now have to pay her $1,236.83 month for "maintenance".
I know we're family friendly here but are you effing kidding me?
Bitch commits a hate crime in the middle of some kind of mental episode and MY life gets trashed and I have to pay for this?

Follow the rabbit, there's a point to this... mindblowing

So broke,
I put all my savings on a small house.  $20k

That's when the garnishments hit for student loans. The X told them I had the money to pay them but was spending it on other things. (The above)

They start taking over $1400 a month from my check.



Now the 13th amendment

I can't leave the state, I'll be tracked down and locked up.
I can't quit my job or I'll get locked up for contempt.
Of my $3750 salary, I take home $550 and I'm still supposed to send a check for $1236.83

Any math majors here want to check my math?

Guess where I'm going? Jail? Prison? Stay tuned.

The system is here to bleed you dry and lock you up when there's nothing left.
I'm eventually going to be turned into a human fifi and passed around like property.

Any lawyers out there wanna help pm and I'll give you my number. Press too. I'll talk to the press. What ever it takes.

I'm so scared. I'd run but you can't run anymore and there's nowhere I can run they can't get me. Don't let my shrink hear this but I'm going to end it before they lock me up. I'm not getting passed around a prison. I'm respectable, I have a great career, and too much pride to be property.