Queen of England

Our beloved Queen Elizabeth has died. She was an amazing person.... words are not enough... God bless her.

I wanted to find a beautiful picture of her, for l knew she was so... here is the Queen, aged 18..... 78 years ago....



Celia xx

It's a sad day. The end of an era. My Mother was  the same age and in fact resembled her in some  ways. She was definitely a fan of the Queen. I suppose I am too.

That is a beautiful picture, Celia. She was a beautiful  woman. She was a beautiful person.

Early on today when the initial  announcement was made. Irish  TV picked up on the way it was announced. Clearly she  wasn't  expected to survive. It was commented that the family was on the  way which had a clear implication. I rang my wife in work and told  her I  thought she had died but they weren't  saying. Needless to say the BBC etc were very discreet.

So it proved.

We can all talk about affairs of state and all  hail  King Charles III. But she was a Mother and grandmother. I remember when my Mother  died. I  know  what  her family are feeling tonight.

My most sincere condolences my sisters.

~ Liz

Condolences to the people in the UK because she's been present in your lives.

With that being said, in the modern world, there's no reason to elevate one family based purely on their bloodline. Whether they relish or despise the limelight - whether they progress or hold back the country - it's still discrimination in its purest form, and it's no surprise that there are underlying cultural issues involving what the monarchy represents (e.g. I'm sure that most people in Ireland aren't mourning). The system is antiquated. Moreover, although there are good things that can be said, she was also the head of a transcontinental empire which brutalized and enslaved millions of non-whites, and defended her son Andrew in the midst of highly credible rape and pedophilia accusations. For the former, one can argue that the Queen's role may have been mostly symbolic and ceremonial, but she still allowed herself to be a symbol. Everything the British government did during her reign was done in her name. She also negotiated (or oversaw the negotiation) of exclusions in the Equality and Diversity Act of 2010 for palace staffing. She lobbied in the Scottish Parliament for exclusions of wildlife protection legislation for the royal estates in Scotland. She protected her estates from being searched for stolen historical or cultural artifacts. She tried to get The State Poverty Fund to pay for the heating of Buckingham Palace. I can go on, really, but my point is that I personally wouldn't put her on a pedestal. Rest in peace, though.

Indeed Anna, much of what you  say is true. I'm  Irish  so not so  much a fan of the empire. So I  find  myself a  reluctant  defender of the  late Queen, perhaps  not so  reluctant. I do feel she threaded  a fine line. There  is hardly  a person who can criticize her actions. Even here in Ireland.

I feel  genuine sadness  at her  passing and that is shared by many in this country, Ireland, even those  like  me  who feel that the monarchy is an anachronism even in Britain.

But it is an end of an era. They say  14 countries still maintain the monarch as the head of state. I feel  that  number  will  decline quite  rapidly. She had a lot of respect which I  don't  believe will be reciprocated to King Charles. Despite his undoubted charms.

The former British Empire has of late been quite rightly been reasssed as being  less  than  a positive influence in history. A reality not grasped by certain people in the current Tory Party.

I won't  address your other  statements because I  know  nothing of them.

I  do feel she represents the  final  end of empire, at least  the appearance of empire.

There'll be rush to Republics soon. Not  least  Australia after  a decent  interval. Canada  too.

Plus  a growing  call  for  compensation from  former  colonies.

The respect  everyone felt  for the  queen will  not  continue for the  king. Already  there's been  a number of anti monarchist protests during the funeral ceremonies. I  think that's disrespectful to the late  Queen and her mourning family. It's inappropriate. There will plenty of time for that from next week.


Turbulent  times ahead. Even in the  UK. Independence  for Scotland and as for  Northern  Ireland the Republicans now form the  majority in the Northern assembly. Soon they may form a majority south of  border too.
Not something I'm  comfortable with I  have to say. I feel they're  dangerous.

Everything in time can be subjective. I am far from ultra Conservative, but rhyme and reason is my thinking. The now is now, the past is past.

Else l could point fingers at Italians, French, Danes and yes, the British nobility, even my being half British.

The first few all enslaved my ancestors... there will be thousands that passed their blood down living in those times of course, so some would have been, some would not been enslaved. But, l forgive them.

Those that were not noble and also not serfs, or one of the many words that cover serfdom, were called freemen, they were anything but free...

There is concrete evidence that the Romans enslaved the British as did the Norman French, both for centuries. For example, the English word, 'graft', (here in the context of still extant use of slang for hard work, not other origins), originates from the late 11th century through to the 12th century. This was when the Norman nobility enslaved the English. A graft, from the French greffe, is a pole the English were forced to drive into the ground to build forts. The word stuck and was used for all enslaved work. I forgive them.

Then there are the vast majority of British that lived under serfdom of nobility. Living in terrible conditions as the nobility languished in riches, comfort and did as they pleased. They even took marital rights of peasants, the serfs... having the right to bed any newlywed on her wedding night... The King or Queen would send you off to battles and then usually did not pay you... l forgive them.

Then there is the Highland clearances after Culloden and worse, the Irish potato famine. Both unnecessary and avoidable. Again, the nobility and rich. Ships full of grain leaving Irish ports for other destinations. I have both Scots and Irish blood. I forgive them.

Then up to fairly recent times, 150 years or so, ordinary people were working every daylit hour in mills, mines and fields for tokens... the tokens bought a lump of bread from the rich owners.... children worked too... some climbed chimneys... if they got stuck they were left to die... they lived in slums, averaging seven people to one dingy room... again, come any wars they were given no choice but to fight and if they refused they were incarcerated.

The rich British, living abroad in the Caribbean, the Americas took African slaves from British slavers until over 200 years ago. The British abolished it and several decades later the Americans were still at it, in fact it was the one main cause of the first modern war, an American civil war.

More recently the British stood alone against the Germans and the Japanese evoked terrible atrocities upon the British and the Germans against the never compliant or neutral majority of Norwegians, enslaved by Danes for centuries.. Many still live and have never had compensation. I forgive them.

The British were bankrupt in '45. They only just paid off their war debt to the Americans this century.

So... why do l forgive? Because l do not bear grudges to people long dead and blame their living descendants... the same as l would not blame any descendant of the deceased Vlad the Impaler for example. It makes no sense.

I forgive. I do not blame descendants of those that subjugated my forebears or seek monetary gain from them. 150 years to 2,100 years is a long time ago. Those that did the nasty deeds are long dead and gone. The living did not do it.

I forgive, it is my way. God Save The King.

Celia xx

Indeed Celia, you know your history and are obviously knowledgeable. I love history too. But am often irritated by it's misuse particularly for political purposes. I find the compensation idea ridiculous.

You mention the exploitation of ordinary people which was and is a worldwide issue. I once worked with Yorkshire man in Dublin who knew little of Irish history and asked me to explain it. I gave him a brief explanation. He listened and said 'That's exactly how they treated us in Yorkshire'.
I thought It was a brilliant observation and I'm still fond of Yorkshire people.

But this is all very well. We're talking about a wonderful woman who was a credit to her country and is much loved throughout the world.

We should pause to acknowledge her life for this week.

Let's have the shouting match later.

This discussion is such a great illustration of how, in todays world, it’s so difficult and ill advised to place anyone on a pedestal. We may be born perfect, but we are born into an imperfect world and by virtue of our heritage we inherit the history of our ancestors. Good or bad, we can’t change that history. The best we can do is live our lives in such a manner that we do more good than damage.

I am of English, Irish, Dutch and German descent as best I know from my family’s oral history, so it’s possible that I’ve inherited histories of both oppressors and oppressed. I can’t even pretend to know how to sort that out.

Acknowledging that there have been systems of oppression that subjugated entire populations is about as much as I individually can do for that which has already happened.

For those systems of oppression that currently exist and continue to cause harm, I can do as much as I can to dismantle those systems, stop ongoing harm and where opportunity and resources exist, repair as much harm as I can. I do that with my vote, with my pocket book and for 42 years I did it in emergency departments, intensive care units and outpatient clinics. Along the way I’ve trained and mentored others to do the same.

I raised my two children to honor the worth of others, to speak for those who cannot speak for themselves, and to confront those who seek advantage at the expense of others. They are now passing those teachings to their kids.

I know I’ve enjoyed and benefited from privilege and that my experience is not the experience of much of the world’s population. As best as I’ve been able I’ve tried to educate myself to recognize injustice and avoid the fruits of injustice. I haven’t always been successful but I keep working on it.

At a personal if not always at the state level, I suspect the Queen probably did much the same, and for that I render my best military salute for the passing of a long serving Head of State.

~ Liz

I'm surprised that she didn't mention the Aden colony (Yemen) or the Mau Mau Uprising, or Operation Banner, which is all more recent and during her reign.

In any case, I am acknowledging Elizabeth II's life. If Operation Legacy taught us anything, it's that frank acknowledgement of the issues and atrocities of the past that she was involved with (and in some instances outright benefited from) is important, too.

I think it's easier to forgive if you or your family didn't directly suffer from said atrocities.

From an outsider perspective, I can't help but wonder how much of the respect the queen garnered is due to cultural indoctrination and PR shenanigans. I mean, this was pretty racist, and she definitely could have changed it if she wanted to. And her actions regarding Andrew were pretty yikes, to say the least.

With that being said, I know that it's certainly an uneasy time out there, especially with Truss being sworn in, and amidst all the scandal. It feels like the end of an era - and it is - but that isn't necessarily a bad thing.