Scary times

**MichaelaSJ** Sat Aug 04, 2018 1:30 am

More People Now Support Allowing Businesses To Refuse LGBTQ Customers: Survey

A new survey from the Public Religion Research Institute suggests that for many Americans, the jury is also still out on this issue.
…
Nearly half of Americans surveyed (46 percent) said that owners of wedding-based businesses, such as caterers, florists and bakers, should be allowed to refuse to serve same-sex couples if doing so violates their religious beliefs. Roughly the same number (48 percent) disagreed, saying that these types of businesses should be required to serve queer couples.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/slightly-more-americans-now-think-christians-shouldnt-have-to-serve-queer-customers-survey_us_5b6498b7e4b0de86f4a10abf

Portland’s Patriot Prayer Rally Could Be Most Violent Since Charlottesville, Activists Say

Armed, proto-fascist gangs are set to rally in Portland, Oregon, this weekend, stirring fears that the city could witness the kind of political violence not seen since the deadly white supremacist “Unite the Right” event in Charlottesville, Virginia, nearly a year ago...
The last rally, on June 30, was declared a riot by the city of Portland after Patriot Prayer and Proud Boy members, many in body armor and carrying weapons, repeatedly charged at anti-fascist protesters. A viral video showed one Proud Boy member knocking a masked anti-fascist unconscious. Other videos showed Proud Boys and Patriot Prayer members isolating and circling counterprotesters, beating them.
At least six people were sent to the hospital after the day’s chaos, one with a brain hemorrhage. Nine people were arrested.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/portland-patriot-prayer-proud-boys-rally_us_5b646217e4b0de86f4a0ba04

Trump at Montana rally: "Democrats want anarchy," mocks #MeToo movement, Elizabeth Warren

In a lengthy, freewheeling speech Thursday in Great Falls, Montana, on Thursday, President Trump spent the vast majority of the hour-plus speech hitting on familiar themes: trade, taxes, immigration, protests by NFL players, the economy, the press, better relations with Russia and North Korea, his proposed "space force," and the Supreme Court vacancy.
The president once again promised to appoint a justice to replace the retiring Supreme Court justice Anthony Kennedy. Mr. Trump said Kennedy had decided to leave the High Court because he knew the president would pick a stellar replacement.

PAY ATTENTION, PLEASE We, the queers of the world will be swept up in the hatred being mixed up in Trump's cauldron

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
Martin Niemöller (1892–1984)

Angelic Sat Aug 04, 2018 4:20 am

Pandering to fear.

You know everytime someone panders to fear it just makes them stronger.

So if the government cannot force bakers to bake a cake with two gay men on it, that doesn't mean the country is being controlled by gestapo nazis.

If the government doesn't force men to watch gay porn, that doesn't mean the country is ran by nazis.

Just think of it as, people not being forced to watch porn, and not being force to bake a gay cake.

The rest of the country, who bakes LGBT friendly cakes, will get double the business, so you are really just helping LGBT open businesses.

Lesley Niyori Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:44 pm

It is true in both cases.

You CAN always go to another bakery.

But, equally so, if you don't stand up to an injustice, that injustice CAN spread.

WW2 DID happen. It happened because of many reasons. One of those many reasons was they were so afraid of repeating WW1. WW2 wasn't the result of Jew Hate. Jews were simply one of the very horrible events during the war. Far more people died at the hands of Stalin that died everywhere else in the European portion of the conflict added together.

If something is unacceptable, and you don't object, you are guilty of allowing it.
I hate Christianity for all of its unChristlike hate. I hate the silent majority that doesn't object to the excesses of its hateful minority. I don't hate Islam, I hate the silent majority of its members for not objecting loud enough to stop its excessive hateful minority.

I don't hate lesbians, I might even be one. I hate the TERFs though, for their total refusal to call a transgender woman a real woman.
I don't hate gays, but I hate it when a gay man hates a transgender man for having a vagina.

I don't hate cisgender people for not knowing, but, I can hate their lack of interest in learning.
I don't hate ignorance, but, I can actively hate willful bigotry and a refusal to change.

Angelic Sat Aug 04, 2018 1:32 pm

Lesley Niyori wrote:
WW2 DID happen. It happened because of many reasons. One of those many reasons was they were so afraid of repeating WW1. WW2 wasn't the result of Jew Hate. Jews were simply one of the very horrible events during the war. Far more people died at the hands of Stalin that died everywhere else in the European portion of the conflict added together.

WW2 happened because of bad cancer treatment, and an angry man who lost his mother to a jew doctor who went on some vengeance campaign about it. This was further solidified by American literature he started to read about a massive Jewish conspiracy of jew's trying to take over the world. After he was a soldier in WW1, all of his squad mates died, not just once but twice, and he started becoming increasingly more bitter and callous than before. Despite this, he claimed he loved the war experience and wanted more violence in his life. He also lived as a poor man of low status and privilege. He would stand on street corners hating Jews to get attention, and he was frequently banned from everywhere he went. Then he faked the amount of Nazis to get people to believe there were more Nazis than there actually were, in order for the group to gain traction. When the group did not gain traction as fast as he hoped, he became a street criminal and started doing things like arson and holding police at gunpoint. Trump is almost the polar opposite of him as deep down a pacifist and a draft dodger.

The moral of this story is, by saying everyone is a Nazi, you are bloating the size of the group, and making people believe they are powerful. Also, one of the techniques Goebbels used is to repeat things over and over, to make them sound true. If you repeat over and over, that half of the country is a Nazi, it will start to reprogram their subconscious, and they will start to act like Nazis.

If something is unacceptable, and you don't object, you are guilty of allowing it.
I hate Christianity for all of its unChristlike hate. I hate the silent majority that doesn't object to the excesses of its hateful minority. I don't hate Islam, I hate the silent majority of its members for not objecting loud enough to stop its excessive hateful minority.

Why do you hate all Christians, but only a minority of Muslims? Surely the majority of Muslims are as homophobic as there are a majority of homophobic Christians? And surely, the Quran itself, is a book of hate-speech. I have never read Mein Kamph, but I would hazard a guess the Quran advocates as much violence as Mein Kamph does, if not more so. I have read some parts of the Quran, and yes it does advocate violence. And this does make it different from Christianity, because even though the Old Testament advocates violence, Christians are supposed to obey Jesus who overrides and rejects the violence of the Old Testament. However, Mohammed himself advocates violence, which makes the religion different. It is also funny to me how flexible American morality just really is. Mohammad, who is 35, can marry a 11 year old girl and that's perfectly acceptable, but if another American does it then it goes back to being inappropriate. I think the word is called "convenient morality" I believe.

I don't hate lesbians, I might even be one. I hate the TERFs though, for their total refusal to call a transgender woman a real woman.

Aye aye. This I can agree to.

I don't hate gays, but I hate it when a gay man hates a transgender man for having a vagina.

I've never heard of a gay outright hating FTMs, I think they just aren't fans of the fish-taco.

I don't hate cisgender people for not knowing, but, I can hate their lack of interest in learning.
I don't hate ignorance, but, I can actively hate willful bigotry and a refusal to change.

Agreed.

Lesley Niyori Sat Aug 04, 2018 1:50 pm

Yer post was drivel Angel.

if I was being paid to educate you, I'd type out the specifics. But I'm not, and I'd rather have my bath and get ready for my girlfriend. Suffice it to say, I'm an expert in 20-century history, and the opening of your post was outright drivel, clever-sounding drivel, but still drivel all the same.

You're so busy writing lengthy failing grade garbage that you make errors in your urgent need to post this shit. How about you stick to writing transgender content on a transgender forum. Because this crap is really making you look like a college student who is wasting your money. How old are you really? You don't sound like you have any connection to the content. I'm a baby boomer, WW2 was my backyard. You don't appear to know the material. But you've likely read about it in college.

Angelic Sat Aug 04, 2018 1:52 pm

Lesley Niyori wrote:Yer post was drivel Angel.

if I was being paid to educate you, I'd type out the specifics. But I'm not, and I'd rather have my bath and get ready for my girlfriend. Suffice it to say, I'm an expert in 20-century history, and the opening of your post was outright drivel, clever-sounding drivel, but still drivel all the same.

You're so busy writing lengthy failing grade garbage that you make errors in your urgent need to post this shit. How about you stick to writing transgender content on a transgender forum. Because this crap is really making you look like a college student who is wasting your money. How old are you really? You don't sound like you have any connection to the content. I'm a baby boomer, WW2 was my backyard. You don't appear to know the material. But you've likely read about it in college.

You are being rude and hostile to me. This was the last straw, and I'm done trying to be friends with you anymore. Too many rude and arrogant people on the internet these days.

Second, you don't even know how to debate. Your debate method is just saying that the other person is wrong, and saying that you are right, without providing any argument whatsoever other than claiming you have better credentials.

Lesley Niyori Sat Aug 04, 2018 2:41 pm

My dad said it best, "you need a pram with higher walls."

Angel, it's a TRANSGENGER forum to discuss TRANSGENDER issues in a polite friendly fashion among transgender members.

I'm not sure what your problem is, but your posts are full of content that speaks to you being a deeply confused, disturbed, angry, hateful person. We've been patiently waiting for you to either be genuine or at least make the effort.

I don't come here to read your weird nonsensical tirades about imaginary issues in the fucking year 3000.

I'll just say it, and I know there are other thinking it, WHAT precisely ARE you? What part of the acronym are you? Are you truly transgender? Why precisely are you hanging out with us?

If you're going to storm off, fine, DO IT, but please, spare us the lunatic fringe drama if you're staying.

I don't have the authourity to ban you, and one of my first posts here was to make it plain I'd refuse the offer of that power to be capable of it. I'm not worried about being banned myself. If I get out of line, I WILL respond correctly to requests to behave.

Angel, you have never actually BEEN my friend. I don't know you, I've never seen your picture, wouldn't recognize you on the street if I passed you. You are just an odd avatar image on a forum and a person who is afraid to be an actual person with an actual name.
You're not even real to me Angel.

You talk about the internet, you are what's wrong with the internet. You're an anonymous faceless, non-person Angel. Look carefully at my avatar Angel, that is ME, a real live human being. My account name is my actual name. The age, the location those are all REAL.
I haven't been rude or hostile to you Angel. But I AM tired of you Angel.

Angelic Sat Aug 04, 2018 2:59 pm

More blatant narcissism-type defense mechanisms. To shield your ego you resort to ad homs and change the subject, to distract from the fact you have no actual argument. The discussion at hand was about Trump, Nazis, WW2 and gay rights. And yet you've somehow turned this in to an offtopic ad-hom festival about telling me I have to prove to you I'm LGBT.

This is narcissistic, because it is a defense mechanism narcissists use in order to deflect any attention away from the fact they are losing the argument. So you resort to cheap character attacks, and emotional "bait", to deflect attention away from yourself. The goal is to lure me into an argument where I have to defend my character from your emotionally fueled attacks, and so I completely forget about the original argument, which you were losing at.

The nonsense is further solidified by blatant contradictions, claiming you have not been rude and hostile, when you have been very openly rude and hostile, so it is another red herring to confuse and distract from the topic at hand, which you are losing at so in your narcissistic retribution you want to make me look bad for pointing out you lost the argument. Many of these narcissistic defense mechanisms are subconscious, your conscious mind may not even know why you are doing them or the strategies and reasons for doing them.

Angelic Sat Aug 04, 2018 3:12 pm

Lesley Niyori wrote:My dad said it best, "you need a pram with higher walls."

Angel, it's a TRANSGENGER forum to discuss TRANSGENDER issues in a polite friendly fashion among transgender members.

Well since I have the time I suppose I will humor some of your bait anyway.

Trump, nazis, baking cakes for gays, and Ww2 is an lgbt topic, so all of this was on topic. The only thing really off topic was your emotional baiting and trying to derail the thread with your manipulative ad homs.

I'm not sure what your problem is, but your posts are full of content that speaks to you being a deeply confused, disturbed, angry, hateful person. We've been patiently waiting for you to either be genuine or at least make the effort.

This doesn't make any sense. Me sharing my emotions, you imply is not geniune. If sharing emotions is not geniune, then what is geniune? Is hiding your emotions geniune? I don't even know where to begin with this comment of yours.

I don't come here to read your weird nonsensical tirades about imaginary issues in the fucking year 3000.

They aren't imaginary issues. They are real issues that effect us today. And they are all solved in the year 3000. So you are flip flopping it around and trying to confuse the issue as part of your narcissistic ego defense, possibly subconscious tactics.

I'll just say it, and I know there are other thinking it, WHAT precisely ARE you? What part of the acronym are you? Are you truly transgender? Why precisely are you hanging out with us?

I'm b and t. I have stated already I hate being male socially, and that personally, I have body dysphoric disorder and disphoria and depression of my own body and facial hair. I have also stated I am into girls, wished I was a lesbian, but also into some guys. But you knew that already, you are just trying to use emotional bait to derail the topic and distract attention from the fact that you have lost the argument. Now, to further clarify, I am most certainly transgender, but am I a cookie cutter transsexual, or cookie cutter crossdresser? No I am not cookie cutter, I deeply feel like I am a woman at times, and other times I feel genderless, just hating everything. I do not identify as a crossdresser, because I do not want to be a man and am not happy as a man, but I do have some differences from cookie cutter transsexuals as well. The question is thus not, if I am transgender, but what exact manner of transgender am I? And yes you may have either consciously or subconsciously put that subtle misstatement there, as part of your tactics.

And why did I join here? To have a society, a community, where I am loved praised and accepted. I have narcissistic tendencies as well. Narcissism forms to overcompensate for abuse and neglect, or to compensate for lack of confidence. If someone is abused or neglected, or is shy and lacks confidence, they develop narcissism to overcompensate. However I am a higher-functioning and nicer narcissist, you seem to be trapped and controlled by your own subconscious ego mechanisms.

Angel, you have never actually BEEN my friend. I don't know you, I've never seen your picture, wouldn't recognize you on the street if I passed you. You are just an odd avatar image on a forum and a person who is afraid to be an actual person with an actual name.
You're not even real to me Angel.

To humor you further, I will ask you this. Why would I expose my current physical form to someone openly hostile and insulting to me?

**MichaelaSJ** Sat Aug 04, 2018 4:12 pm

Some will always get what I am after, some will sometimes get what I am after and then some will never get what I am after.

Sorry Angel but you totally missed my point.

Also, where is the spellcheck for a thread title?

Angelic Sat Aug 04, 2018 4:18 pm

MichaelaSJ wrote:Some will always get what I am after, some will sometimes get what I am after and then some will never get what I am after.

Sorry Angel but you totally missed my point.

Also, where is the spellcheck for a thread title?

No, I get you Michaela. You, like many others, feel powerless and victimized by politicians as a whole, and feel like you must remain vigilant against threats against freedom and liberties of citizens. But in the same token, not everyone sees things the same as you do. If a baker doesn't like gay weddings, and doesn't wish to cater to a gay wedding, that is not the same as the country being ran by nazis. If anything, the country is mostly ran by Zionist Jews or Zionist Christians. And there comes a point when, paranoia and prophecy can be self-fulfilling, like I said, if you keep repeating something over and over again, it may start to become true. It's like an ordinary person, if every day they are being told they are a dirty, rotten, no good criminal, they will start to behave the way they are being told they are. So if you continuously call everyone a nazi, people may start to behave and believe as such. If you preach that a civil war is imminent, people will start to manifest as though a civil war is actually imminent. This is called the law of attraction, by Oprah. I don't buy into all of Oprah's law of attraction, but some of it is true. The other term for it is, Polarization.

**Celia Eriksson** Sun Aug 05, 2018 3:09 pm

Ok, so twice in one week eh?

Right, well firstly let's get one thing clear. I have read all the chat between you both and firstly I'd like to say that you are both setting a very bad example to young and new members here, so pack it in now!

I have decided that there are no openly nasty comments about persona and yet again I will have to take time to explain.

Lesley, my friend, (who actually Angel, is a very nice person BTW), there is a mistake you have made here. There is no requirement for people to place a photograph of themselves upon here, anyone thinking of joining and reading this would shy away from such comments. I will not allow baiting for identification, photographs or revelation. There is, Lesley, good reason for this. It is not a rule so trolls can have fun here in pretence, I would soon sniff them out. It is because there are many transgender women that are not out and others worried about being stalked. Powerful search engines can chase people around the internet. Others are work in progress, (we all are to some degree), and might not wish to show themselves yet. You are a sensible woman and as somebody online that I like as a friend, I know you will now realise this. You may not have thought it through, so a deletion of the offending post is enough. If there is call for other parts to be deleted, I will consider it.

Angel, I probably understand you more than most here do, but of all our regulars members, I understand you the least, if you know what I mean. Please do not react so often. I have had to react to this thread from a message from someone without this entire thread. The thread was Miki's and now it is locked because of your over reaction. If someone is asking you to show yourself talk to me, don't plow on baiting them back. This is twice in one week and you are involved in both complaints.

I hope you both cool off and either be nice, or do not respond to each other. Please do not send me feedback, I don't want to hear any more of this, apart from requests for further deletion upon this thread. This thread is locked, (sorry Miki), and I am going to remove the post asking for identification also, another sails close to the wind, but I'll leave that for gist.

No more, please.

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Closing thread.

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