Thought I would check in on y'all. #notasafespace

Despite it seems like the mod(s) here just want this to be a left wing echo chamber, I thought I'd come back and see how y'all are holding up.

I have faith that once the obviously fraudulent ballots in WI, MI and PA are rightfully thrown out, we will have four more years of DJT. At least that's my sincere hope.

Now, I didn't come back to rub anyone's face in it. You're free to be a leftist if you want. But I will not stand for a stolen election. And neither should you. Still, it's possible this election will be stolen by people who have no honor or integrity.

And yes, I can hear y'all whining now that I'm just a troll and not a really trans. Because I'm sure most of you have been conditioned to believe that you have to think a certain way. Kinda like when Pedo Joe said "if you don't know whether to vote for me or Trump, you ain't black." If you're trans, gotta be leftist. Right? Not me. I'm not on anybody's plantation. I don't blindly follow sophists who tell whatever crowd they're talking to that day whatever they want to hear.

So y'all take a deep breath. Four more years of DJT will not be the end of your lives. Life will go on, in all likelihood, it will get better.

Took this at the house today.

On election day I cruised through the local polling station and met up with a couple Jeep guys flying flags as well.  We did a little impromptu parade down the main drag of town.  Lots of honks, lots of waves.  It was fun.

Hi Hypatia,

Welcome back. Being from Europe, I cannot take sides Thank you for realising that we accept posts from all political leanings and though, I may not, or may agree with you, either way you are still welcome.

I tend to hold middle ground. But, at the moment it does not mean much to me, there is no election here and thank God when there is, there is not so much division. Thank you for the photos, feel free to post, I am accepting of posts from all colours of the political rainbow of sisters..... I ask only one thing of all members..... be nice.

Celia xx

Hypatia1 wrote:I have faith that once the obviously fraudulent ballots in WI, MI and PA are rightfully thrown out, we will have four more years of DJT.  At least that's my sincere hope.

One of the things that is very, very annoying from Trump voices like yours is that there is absolutely NO EVIDENCE of any material fraud in the vote in ANY state. Historically, the level of voter fraud is in the range of 0.0006%; hardly enough to change any election.

The Heritage Foundation, a right-wing think tank, has been studying voter fraud for years in order to provide support for more restrictive voting laws such as voter ID. The most recent report has an attention-grabbing headline: “Database Swells to 1,285 Proven Cases of Voter Fraud in America.” They admit that the report isn’t comprehensive because it doesn’t capture cases that aren’t investigated or prosecuted. Yet, on the basis of that report they argue that there is serious voter fraud in America.
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2020/06/02/low-rates-of-fraud-in-vote-by-mail-states-show-the-benefits-outweigh-the-risks/

Let's, for the moment believe there will be 1,500 cases of voter fraud this election and that 150,000,000 votes are actually cast, then the amount of voter fraud, expressed as a percentage will be: 0.00001%, much less than the 0.0006% I posted above. And these numbers are from "The Heritage Foundation" one of the most conservative political group thinktanks in the United States.

I am more than willing to listen to a conservative voice. But, frankly conservatives hold very little in a way to move my Nation to a better place.

I am a progressive, a pragmatic progressive and I will never hide from that moniker. We need conservative voices to keep the less than pragmatic progressives from running away in their zeal. But, do not for one moment believe that I do not share the goal of their zeal - I just think we need to be able to pay for whatever we want for out future.

Good to see you back, Hypatia.

Hypatia1 wrote:I have faith that once the obviously fraudulent ballots in WI, MI and PA are rightfully thrown out, we will have four more years of DJT.  At least that's my sincere hope.

I assume you have actual, verifiable proof of this assertion, and are not simply echoing what Mr Trump has been claiming with no proof for four years?

Hypatia1 wrote:You're free to be a leftist if you want.

With all due respect, not toeing the Trump line hardly makes me a leftist.

Hypatia1 wrote:But I will not stand for a stolen election.  And neither should you.  Still, it's possible this election will be stolen by people who have no honor or integrity.

Trump and his cronies have proven over and over again that they have no honour or integrity, yes.

One thing I agree with you on is that, once all is settled, we need to work together. Life will go on.

Oh, and seriously, if the Democrats were cheating to that extent, do you think they would have let McConnell or Graham be re-elected?

Sorry for the multiple posts. For some reason I can't multi-quote.

Celia Eriksson wrote:Hi Hypatia,

Welcome back. Being from Europe, I cannot take sides Thank you for realising that we accept posts from all political leanings and though, I may not, or may agree with you, either way you are still welcome.

I tend to hold middle ground. But, at the moment it does not mean much to me, there is no election here and thank God when there is, there is not so much division. Thank you for the photos, feel free to post, I am accepting of posts from all colours of the political rainbow of sisters.....  I ask only one thing of all members..... be nice.

Celia xx

I have to be honest, I am surprised the thread is still open. I generally don't associate with many other trans people because I have found, at least in my own personal experience, many to be close-minded. That's just my personal experience, not reflective of my history on this board yet.

I try to be nice, really I do. But I don't "blow smoke" (don't know if you're familiar with that expression, but it just means to tell someone what they want to hear). If you're trans, you know the world is a tough, cruel mthrfckr. Even our so-called "allies" are often just sophists. I love The Big Bang Theory, but even as liberal as Chuck Lorre is, I noticed he didn't mind cracking a few jokes at our expense. Now, I have a pretty good sense of humor about things and I can take a joke when it's funny. But the point is he (I'm saying "he" specifically to Chuck Lorre but it was the writers of the show. I'm still Chuck has ultimate say in what does or does not go into the show) didn't have any problems making a cheap crack at us if he thought it could get him a laugh.

But back to the point. People are rude, mean and cruel. Just because they tell you what you want to hear doesn't mean they're not just contemptuous dicks behind your back. And that goes for the guy at work, your next door neighbor or the politician running for town council.

Fact is, it's tough being trans. And you have to be tough to survive it. How many people have you heard of that off'd themselves because they couldn't deal with the harassment? How many people have you heard of that have been murdered because, for all the talk, society just isn't there yet?

When I talk to other trans people I often see a lot of self centered, angry people, always at war. And it bugs the shit out of me. If you come off as a hysterical lunatic do you think you're going to change minds? I prefer to try and be more of an ambassador and less of a warrior. I like to think I have changed a lot of minds in the circles I run in, which are far more conservative. I know that if I had gone to these people like a raving lunatic all I would do is discredit myself and stain anyone else who ever comes out as trans.

I could go on, but I'd rather this not be a manifesto.

Again, sorry for multiple posts.

MichaelaSJ wrote:

Hypatia1 wrote:I have faith that once the obviously fraudulent ballots in WI, MI and PA are rightfully thrown out, we will have four more years of DJT.  At least that's my sincere hope.

One of the things that is very, very annoying from Trump voices like yours is that there is absolutely NO EVIDENCE of any material fraud in the vote in ANY state. Historically, the level of voter fraud is in the range of 0.0006%; hardly enough to change any election.

The Heritage Foundation, a right-wing think tank, has been studying voter fraud for years in order to provide support for more restrictive voting laws such as voter ID. The most recent report has an attention-grabbing headline: “Database Swells to 1,285 Proven Cases of Voter Fraud in America.” They admit that the report isn’t comprehensive because it doesn’t capture cases that aren’t investigated or prosecuted. Yet, on the basis of that report they argue that there is serious voter fraud in America.
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2020/06/02/low-rates-of-fraud-in-vote-by-mail-states-show-the-benefits-outweigh-the-risks/

Let's, for the moment believe there will be 1,500 cases of voter fraud this election and that 150,000,000 votes are actually cast, then the amount of voter fraud, expressed as a percentage will be: 0.00001%, much less than the 0.0006% I posted above. And these numbers are from "The Heritage Foundation" one of the most conservative political group thinktanks in the United States.

I am more than willing to listen to a conservative voice. But, frankly conservatives hold very little in a way to move my Nation to a better place.

I am a progressive, a pragmatic progressive and I will never hide from that moniker. We need conservative voices to keep the less than pragmatic progressives from running away in their zeal. But, do not for one moment believe that I do not share the goal of their zeal - I just think we need to be able to pay for whatever we want for out future.

Au contraire! There is a ton of evidence. We just don't have proof... yet. And the evidence is in statements from postal workers testifying to seeing ballots dumped. It's in the Detroit counting station boarding up the windows so no one can see what's going on. It's ballot boxes being found in the trunks of cars (Al Franken, Minnesota, 2010). It's amazing how these things always benefit the democrat candidate and not the republican.

And as to your supposition, I counter that 1,500 is only what would be planted in a single precinct. We're on the order of tens of thousand in some of these states.

I get that people hate Trump. Not saying I agree with it, but I get that people still believe the Russia lie, since it has been perpetuated for four years now. I know he said "...grab 'em by the p*$$y". I know he's brash and arrogant and he makes GWB sound like Ronald Reagan (or Bill Clinton, if he's more your speed). But I don't care. I like what he does. I like the fact that he cut taxes. I like the fact that he's taken a hard stance with China, the single most globally aggressive nation in the world today. And for those that have a history background, I like to paraphrase Lincoln talking about Grant, "I can't spare this man. He fights."

Tara wrote:Good to see you back, Hypatia.

Hypatia1 wrote:I have faith that once the obviously fraudulent ballots in WI, MI and PA are rightfully thrown out, we will have four more years of DJT.  At least that's my sincere hope.

I assume you have actual, verifiable proof of this assertion, and are not simply echoing what Mr Trump has been claiming with no proof for four years?

Hypatia1 wrote:You're free to be a leftist if you want.

With all due respect, not toeing the Trump line hardly makes me a leftist.

Hypatia1 wrote:But I will not stand for a stolen election.  And neither should you.  Still, it's possible this election will be stolen by people who have no honor or integrity.

Trump and his cronies have proven over and over again that they have no honour or integrity, yes.

One thing I agree with you on is that, once all is settled, we need to work together. Life will go on.

I always find it fascinating how leftists never claim to be leftists. Maybe you're not. I don't know you. Maybe you really are more centrist. That was just a general statement and not directed at you personally. It's just been an observation of mine over the years.

I would disagree with your assertion regarding honor and integrity. DJT has not enriched his family by using political office for the last 40+ years like that other candidate has. DJT has not cozied up to an adversary nation like that other candidate has.

And why the hell are we even talking about Biden? Does anyone actually believe he'll be president this time next year? And I'm not even talking about winning or losing the election. If the socialist-democrats do manage to steal this election, Biden won't make it six months before he's replaced with Comrade Kamala. And please don't tell me anyone here thinks she's a good choice to run the country. These people are autocrats, just waiting to lord over us like the peons they think we are.

But to your point about working together and getting along. I would love to believe that, really I would. I don't know how realistic it is given the divide. I mean, seriously, we have people in this country that view Communist China more favorably than conservative Americans. How are we to bridge the gap between AntiFA and Proud Boys? Or BLM and the police? In all seriousness, how do you bridge that divide?

Hypatia1 wrote:I always find it fascinating how leftists never claim to be leftists.

You obviously have a short-term memory issue. I posted yesterday that I freely admit to being a progressive, a pragmatic progressive, but still a progressive.

I will leave the rest of your mindless rants to the place where they belong...

MichaelaSJ wrote:

Hypatia1 wrote:I always find it fascinating how leftists never claim to be leftists.

You obviously have a short-term memory issue. I posted yesterday that I freely admit to being a progressive, a pragmatic progressive, but still a progressive.

I will leave the rest of your mindless rants to the place where they belong...

That wasn't directed at you, as I specifically stated.

But the leftists may very well get their way. Whether legitimately (which I will never believe) or illegitimately, it's very possible that Pedo Joe will be the president for a few months until they install Harris. If that happens, our long national nightmare begins.

Hi Hypatia and Miki,

Looking at it from the outside, I doubt Joe Biden intends to die, or give up his Presidency so easily. But, it is of course possible, anyone could die whilst in office, even were he 27. He will have the very best medical care upon earth and were I a gambling type, would place a bet upon him making four years.

It is over now, sometimes in life we do not get what we wish politically, I did vote against the leaving of the EU here, but once the vote came I was so annoyed at people that did not accept the democratic vote, that I now support the withdrawal and support it. For my fellow Britons made that choice. It is called digging in and getting on with it. I voted Boris at the last election purely to ensure that, as many others did, if that is not middle of the road politics, I don't know what is. In fact, I have not voted Labour since '97.

When Trump was elected, i did hope he would be a more silent kind of President. The tweets did not enamour me towards him. My favourite Presidents happen to be Republican, I liked GW Bush most, his father and Ronald Reagan. Nixon too, was brilliant, but I was too young to know his true worth. Of the Democrats, Kennedy and Obama stand out in my lifetime, but again Kennedy was before my political realisation.

I liked Kennedy, because he was strong against the Soviets. And Obama, because he did not become anything the moderates feared. My favourite picture of any US president is this one.... contempt all over Obama's face, quite rightly so.





Now on a lighter note... my favourite diplomatic quote from a world leader, in the days of scruples.... it happened soon after this....



Yes, Nikita Khrushchev bangs his shoe upon the table at the UN in 1960, whilst an American delegate spoke. Then this man intervened and asked the UN President a question.....



"I'd like that translated, if I may."

That man was called Harold Macmillan, yes small second 'm'. British Prime Minister of the 50's and early 60's, in the days when politicians had scruples and a sense of humour..... I could also quote Churchill's many, many superb comments that showed great humour. And then figure for why you can no longer wonder why I like GW Bush, who has a sensational sense of humour.

Celia xx

Well, Celia, given my admittedly limited knowledge of your political structure, you do sound about as middle of the road as I could expect from a Brit. Glad to see you can approach this from an objective lens.

I'm not willing to concede defeat yet, and neither is Trump. He says he has a massive amount of proof of voter fraud. I'm deeply saddened that it's going to the courts, but honestly, this could have all been avoided if one side had been transparent during the election. I know the defenders will claim it was fair, but it looks like the courts will decide. If anything, maybe we'll get legitimate election reform out of this, but I'm not holding my breath. What a clown show. We put on more secure elections in Iraq than in Philadelphia. Genuinely embarrassing.

As to the presidents you referenced, I'll leave my opinion of BHO out as I literally do not have one nice thing to say about the man. I voted for both Bushes, and they were both a disappointment. I still think better than the alternatives of the time, but still disappointing. Of my lifetime, I still to this day love RR. The man was a beautiful speaker and I believe he cared about America and her allies. And I have no problem admitting Trump is not an eloquent speaker, even when speaking from a teleprompter. His delivery is horrible and he goes off on these weird tangents. I could do without his tweets. Some, I think he does just to dig at certain people. Some just make me cringe. But I do like much of what he's done. I'm sure that, like here, your media coverage has been radically skewed against him, but he's done a lot of good for the county. All the more reason the left wants him gone so badly. One of my favorite memes of DJT is a picture of him with the caption "In reality, they're not after me. They're after you. I'm just in the way." I have no idea if he actually said that, but I feel it's so appropriate.

Anyway, we shall see if the left gets their way. If so, we're on a downward spiral to one party rule in perpetuity.

Ronald Reagan was a 'Great President' who did absolutely nothing great. He was 'Great' because he brought the Country together in many ways, but tore it apart in other ways.

• Can you say anything good about Iran-Contra...
  
• Can you say anything good about his treatment of AIDS/ HIV...
  
• Can you say anything good about supply-side economics...
  
• Can you say anything good about the largest increase in the public debt...
  
• Can you say anything good about his anti-union stance...
  
• Can you say anything good about his trade agreement with China...
  

There were good things he did also, but nothing that would make him a real 'Great President'.

MichaelaSJ wrote:Ronald Reagan was a 'Great President' who did absolutely nothing great. He was 'Great' because he brought the Country together in many ways, but tore it apart in other ways.

• Can you say anything good about Iran-Contra...  Yes I can!  It was a brilliant move.  He sold weapons to two of our enemies that were at war with each other and then funneled the proceeds to freedom fighters in El Salvador.  Fkn brilliant!
  
• Can you say anything good about his treatment of AIDS/ HIV... Really not his job.
  
• Can you say anything good about supply-side economics... Having lived through it, yes I can.  I've never been employed by a poor person.  Simple economics.
  
• Can you say anything good about the largest increase in the public debt... I'm not happy about that either but I learned way back in high school civics class that congress writes the budget.  All any president can do is sign or veto.  Do you remember that from civics class?
  
• Can you say anything good about his anti-union stance... Oh hell, yes.  I was thrilled to see him fire the ATCs.  He told them not to go on strike and they did it anyway.  Got exactly what they deserved.  Look, I've worked in a union shop.  Fortunately, I live in a right-to-work state so I didn't have to allow the union to steel money from me.  What I did see from my union coworkers is them contributing to their union.  Meanwhile all the union did was bad-mouth the employer and foster an adversarial relationship with the company.  
  Got news for you, honey.  Employers aren't inherently evil.  I don't think unions should be outlawed, they certainly serve a purpose.  But let me explain it to you like this.  Ten years ago, I had cancer.  To kill the cancer, I went through chemotherapy.  Chemotherapy is just a poison they hope kills the cancer before it kills you.  In my case, it was successful, I have been in remission for eight years now.  And I stopped taking the chemotherapy.  Unions are like chemotherapy.  They're to treat a sickness.  They're not a nutrient.
  
• Can you say anything good about his trade agreement with China... China has been fkn us over for 20 years now.  Actually started back in Clinton's day (I really don't have a lot of nice things to say about him either) when he allowed Loral to sell the Chinese space-capable rocket technology.  Now, they're an aggressor nation and near-peer military adversary, building their capabilities largely on technology stolen from the US.  They threaten our allies and bully their neighbors.  Trump was the first president in my lifetime to stand up to them.  That's why they pumped literally BILLIONS of dollars into defeating him.  He's hurt their economy and ambition and they want retribution.  I personally don't think the China virus is an accident.  China is an enemy nation.
  

There were good things he did also, but nothing that would make him a real 'Great President'.

Oh, there were tons of things, not least of which was standing up to Gorby and telling him to "tear down this wall".  I'm also proud that he walked out on Reykjavic (sp?).  Ya, I said that.  He rebuilt a military that was decimated under Carter (and in all fairness to Carter, he didn't have far to go from what he inherited from Ford).  I could list more, but it's pretty clear you and I are from completely different political ideologies.

Hypatia

You world view and my world are so dissimilar as to as different as being on Mars or Venus (you pick). I am not going to respond to anymore of your posts.

My final comment is: you will need to reconcile yourself to at least four years of a Biden/Harris presidency and I believe that is a good thing for My Country.

Hypatia, I'm no leftist, yes I know your answer to that. I would say that. But I'm no fascist either. I would in American terms be a right wing Democrat or a left wing Republican. Like most people.

The party I generally vote for has a gay leader, who is socially conservative yet liberal. Possibly a shocking concept from where you stand.

I'll make no effort to convince you to my point of view. It won't work, you're quite entrenched. Besides you are extremely able at sophistry. Now I enjoy a bit sophistic argument but I don't have the psychic energy right now.

You're mistaken in the sense that being trans makes us more inclined to a liberal point of view. We are just people and essentially women. Many women support Trump but it strikes me as being complicit in their own oppression. He is by any standard a mysognist.  He is no friend of trans people either. The right in America may be more anti trans but over in the UK. It's often the left and trendy  liberals. Intolerance works both ways.

Anyway I find people like you interesting, clearly intelligent but seemly prey to all kinds of misinformation. Lefties are no different. You may be opposites but not that different. We in the middle ground scratch our heads at your follys. People on the extremes are always quick to invent stories that suit their agenda. They try to manipulate people to their point of view. This is no invention on my part. It's all been written down and acted on. Propaganda is nothing new.

From my point of view I'm glad Trump lost, It lifts a weight from my shoulders. But I'm also glad he was in power for a while even though he is a danger to democracy. He proved how delicate a flower democracy is. How easily it's lost.

But American democracy bloomed again.

Trump is finished. He knows it. He lost the popular vote both times in fact. But he's created this narrative, this conspiracy theory of the illegal votes. Two reasons, one is vague hope of a turn around and secondly so he can go into retirement calling himself a winner that was cheated. Suits his ego.

Now to the stolen election conspiracy theory. You need to step back and  review it objectively. You should do this. Are the Democrats capable of organising a spectacular coup on this scale? Really?  They did themselves no favours in the Senate or Congress.

Do you think they could organise this without someone becoming aware of it and blowing the whistle. Do you think they do without leaving evidence? No not anecdotes nor what Donald Trump invents in his mind. Actual physical evidence.

No a conspiracy of this scale requires the cooperation of thousands of people without a conscience and who feel able to betray everything they've believed about America and the constitution. It's a bit implausible. The Democrats are incapable of it.

The real lesson learned is that they're can be no more Trumps in name or nature. He was elected off the real sense that politicians had let the ordinary man or woman down. Clinton was quite rightly seen as yet another member of the elite class that the arrogant Democrats foisted on them.

Politicians are the servants of the people not the other way around.

Trump should go quietly to Mar Del Lago and enjoy his golf  before he loses all of his dignity and that of the USA. He made America a laughing stock around the world.

People here often often consider the average American stupid. I always objected to that, ignorant sometimes, arrogant occasionally but always friendly, rarely stupid.

I always said that the American people will put this right. They did. They put an average Joe from Scranton PA into the Whitehouse.

My faith is justified.

Just a quick not to everybody dancing in the streets, this election ain't over.

Oh this election is over but not the next one. Trump is finished. Trump's problem is that he isn't a politican. That seemed an advantage at first but the lack of political skills worked against him. But the Republican party now knows what works to gain power and keep it. All they need is a charismatic populist candidate with real political skills to employ the same tactics without using Twitter to rant.

If the Democrats spend the next four years squabbling between the left and right and fail to win back Trump supporters. They will be sleepwalking into a clean sweep for the Republicans and likely will be out of power for decades. Possibly even a President for life. Like Putin, Erdogan and Kim.

I doubt even Hypatia might relish that.

Hi Everyone,

It is over.... I don't understand why Donald is even trying anymore. But, if there has been widespread foul play, then it needs to be shown to be so right now! Because it is not healthy otherwise for the USA's political integrity.... either way. Both parties have shown shocking tactics.

I think there is a kind of misunderstanding in the USA about others looking in. I understand, for example, as a Brit, the US political set up perfectly well, I do not need it explained, it does rather insult my intelligence.

I also just about understand the French and German setups. I know Norway's system, but that is different, I know that because I am half Norwegian. What I am trying to say is do not ignore those from outside looking in!

The US constitution needs quite some change, there needs to be hard and fast rules about your Presidential elections. Sorry, but that is a fact.

Celia xx

For those not in the U.S., you are likely to see what is happening to us now on you page 14 - not your front pages.

Trump is gutting our Defense Department. Last Thursday, he fired a competent Defense Secretary, Mark Esper, and placed a loyalist lackey in his place. He is firing senior, and needed, Defense Department officials and putting his 'friends' in their place.

Our Attorney General violated long standing Justice Department policy by demanding Assistant Attorney Generals to start investigating the November 3rd vote based upon unfounded rumors, before the election is certified this December 14th.

Trump is threatening to fire the Director of the CIA, Gina Haskell. She is regarded as more than competent.

Trump has threatened to fire the head of our infectious disease effort. Dr. Fauci is a civil servant and fortunately Trump cannot fire him.

There are news reports that anyone close to Trump who even mentions Biden's name is terminated.

Trump is rattling the swords for the far-right in My Country and I suspect there may be small insurgent type issues next year.

Biden may have won the November 3rd vote as announced by our news organizations, but he is not yet our POTUS and Trump appears to be doing everything he can to make the next 70 days a living hell for My Country.

There is speculation that Trump is circling his wagons with very loyal 'friends' to stay in office next January 20. I do not believe this speculation, but yet, the speculation is there and it cannot be ignored. I suspect there are many governments trying to figure out what is going to happen next January - and they are making plans to protect their own governments.

I trust that our military leaders live by their oaths to defend the Constitution and NOT Donald Trump. I trust that our Secret Service will know who the POTUS is come this next January 20, 2021. I do not foresee a coup coming, but only because I am place my faith in those who have sworn to protect us and will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same

It may be too early, but, be afraid - be very afraid.

Michaela,
Yes the military understand their oath.

https://youtu.be/nMaI1Hg8dl8

"We are unique among militaries. We do not take an oath to a king or a queen, a tyrant or a dictator. We do not take an oath to an individual. No, we do not take an oath to a country, a tribe or religion. We take an oath to the Constitution. And every soldier that is represented in this museum, every sailor, airman, Marine, Coast Guardsman, each of us will protect and defend that document, regardless of personal price," 

I have confidence that the active duty US military will not take part in any sort of government overthrow. They take their oath very seriously, and the top leadership know their history and legal requirements quite well. Far better than someone hiding behind a wall in the White House.

That doesn't mean there wouldn't be the occasional loose cannon here or there, of course.

Of far more concern to me is the damage being done in civilian agencies, including the civilian leadership in the DoD.

Tara wrote:That doesn't mean there wouldn't be the occasional loose cannon here or there, of course.

Remember, Muammar Gaddafi was a low level officer. Coups don't always start at the top.

Tara wrote:Of far more concern to me is the damage being done in civilian agencies, including the civilian leadership in the DoD.

Yeah, the proverbial bulls in the china shop.

Ultimately, I think there will be a quiet turnover of the government and my concerns will be shown to be overwrought, but Trump's loyalists will be doing as much damage as they can in the meanwhile.